Thx tZork and Flying Steel!

@tZork:ok I'll use lods. I think I'll create 4 lods.1 (low) of 1000 tris, 1 (medium) of 2000, 1(high)
of 3000-3200 and 1(extreme but I think that it won't be used) of 5000 tris. What do you think?

@Flying Steel:Yes, I use quads, because is better, but I heard that id engines use to convert models in tris so I wanted to know before exporting how much tris I could count on

maybe this evening first shot!

p.s what are overdraw situations?

As promised, here the link to the first shot of my vehicle, Percival v1! The link is inactive for 30 secs, I'm sorry, but these are upload site policies ! Anyway please give me some feedback!
This is the medium LOD, is about 3200 tris
http://www.upbrite.com/download.php?file=2332435
This model will be released under creative commons license!

toneddu2000 wrote:As promised, here the link to the first shot of my vehicle, Percival v1! The link is inactive for 30 secs, I'm sorry, but these are upload site policies ! Anyway please give me some feedback!
This is the medium LOD, is about 3200 tris
http://www.upbrite.com/download.php?file=2332435
This model will be released under creative commons license!

please for the love of something furry, cute or holy, release it under gpl OR dual license it with CC and GPL and have the sauce for your creation, available, so since its a nice thing you have going there, nexuiz can ship with it!

Also please use the great gallery over at nexuizninjaz, for your nexuiz related pics!

Ok, I'll make a dual license CC/GPL, I thought CC were better for artistic exchanges , but maybe I'm wrong !Thanks to paperclips and of course to http://pics.nexuizninjaz.com/ this is the image (finally!)

nice car, but nexuiz models don't have sit anim

thx for using pics.nn.com, how did you find that previous hosting site ? did you just google "worst image hosting site on earth" ?

cc (share alike) and gpl are exactly the same but not compatible with each other, and since nexuiz is gpl, it's better stick to it

The Percival v1 looks nice toneddu2000 =) and yes, if you want it in nexuiz, it will have to be GPL. I doubt more then 3 LOD's are really necessary. 5k is not really extreme.. 1,3 and 5k seem like good lod's to me. depends on how much those extra 2k adds to it of course =)

Morphed is right, do don't have any reasonable way of displaying the driver in a open vehicle . best workaround i can think of atm is model a (simple) driver for it as a separate object.

tZork wrote:Morphed is right, do don't have any reasonable way of displaying the driver in a open vehicle . best workaround i can think of atm is model a (simple) driver for it as a separate object.

Would it help if I export a model with a seated animation?

ihsan wrote:

tZork wrote:Morphed is right, do don't have any reasonable way of displaying the driver in a open vehicle . best workaround i can think of atm is model a (simple) driver for it as a separate object.

Would it help if I export a model with a seated animation?

That might work if you use one of the current nexuiz models. I think they all use one or two sets of bones rigs.

@Morphed:You were kidding, but I REALLY goggled for a "image hosting site on earth"and I found the worst one

@all the nexuiz community:the model will be gpl (I was ignorant about license format, now I know about link between Nexuiz and gpl and I've no doubt)

@tZork:If I close the vehicle, we can add more details and maybe we don't need a third lod.
Imho add a sit animation for only a model it's not a good idea. For example it would happen that a Pirya model enters the car and the model sitting is the Grunt! Maybe one day, the models will be separate from the skeletons, so a rigger will have to add animations only to skeleton and all the models will work, but for now it's a really BIG work!

@ihsan if you want to add animation I'll be very thankful to you, but can you also add 20 frames for a "shaking animation" while the model is in the vehicle(the model that swings from left to right for the bumps on the road)? If it isn't too much work, of course!

Closing it up is the easier and more performance friendly way. Only two lod levels might "pop" a bit to much, but ill leave that for you to decide.

The community has been asking for melee animations for YEARS now. Never happened. Making the extra animations for just one generic model first makes sense for these pre-alpha things. I'll have something up soon.

ihsan wrote:The community has been asking for melee animations for YEARS now. Never happened. Making the extra animations for just one generic model first makes sense for these pre-alpha things. I'll have something up soon.

Melee weapons without a melee weapon system suck terribly.

There was a 3d fighting game where you used the mouse to control where the melee blade went, that had good melee weapons (as you really needed skill to block etc, or score a hit, because you controlled the weapon.) Nexuiz does not have a melee weapon system thus any "melee" weapon is just a short ranged gun, and sucks.

Also asking for something doesn't mean it will be created: no one is beholden to the 'community', devs are only beholden to themselves and no one who wanted a melee combat system has stepped up to code one.

Flying Steel wrote:For vehicles, why use tris? I'd try to go with quads for starters.

5,000-10,000 quads for the top LoD for the largest and least common vehicles.

Vehicles aren't like weapons in that they can take up most of the screen under many circumstances, so be especially careful to avoid overdraw situations.

Games count polygons with tris, of course one models (or should model) in quads to keep it consistent and easy to redo. However, one does not count in quads, so when you say 10.000 quads you mean 20.000 tris which is A LOT for a vehicle no matter how rare it is. I'd say 10.000 tris tops, then we could see how that looks and go from there, add more or take away if needed.

I installed it the same way it said to and I have 2.5.1

BasePyria with driving animations appended.

http://www.significanceltd.com/test/pyriadriving.zip

As always it's GPL, uses nexuiz folder structure (so you can just change extension to pk3 and use) and all build files are included.

Replaces Pyria.

P.S.

ai wrote:

Flying Steel wrote:For vehicles, why use tris? I'd try to go with quads for starters.

5,000-10,000 quads for the top LoD for the largest and least common vehicles.

Vehicles aren't like weapons in that they can take up most of the screen under many circumstances, so be especially careful to avoid overdraw situations.

Games count polygons with tris, of course one models (or should model) in quads to keep it consistent and easy to redo. However, one does not count in quads, so when you say 10.000 quads you mean 20.000 tris which is A LOT for a vehicle no matter how rare it is. I'd say 10.000 tris tops, then we could see how that looks and go from there, add more or take away if needed.

Even the dominancewar guys limit to 10,000 tris. http://www.dominancewar.com/
Can't get better than that.

Wow ihsan, thx a lot!Now I can make test with the percival "open"!

Now we've to decide:if we choose "open model" now that ihsan made the left- right steering animation, I'll continue with percival v1, in the other way, I'll begin tomorrow with texturing and rigging the closed version. By the way, in spiderbot, there's a modeled HUD, do I realize a car hud also for the closed version or the cam will switch to third person when the player come in?

ai wrote:

Flying Steel wrote:For vehicles, why use tris? I'd try to go with quads for starters.

5,000-10,000 quads for the top LoD for the largest and least common vehicles.

Vehicles aren't like weapons in that they can take up most of the screen under many circumstances, so be especially careful to avoid overdraw situations.

Games count polygons with tris, of course one models (or should model) in quads to keep it consistent and easy to redo. However, one does not count in quads, so when you say 10.000 quads you mean 20.000 tris which is A LOT for a vehicle no matter how rare it is. I'd say 10.000 tris tops, then we could see how that looks and go from there, add more or take away if needed.

Older games counted in tris, sure. But new ones don't necessarily do that, at least not static meshes like most non-character models. I don't know about darkplaces.

20,000 tris still isn't bad IF you have LoDs. I'm talking Unreal Tournament 3 or Crysis level content here, not the standards of ten years ago. At some point you have to count on people having upgraded their hardware.

this vehicle would be awesome it has 2 miniguns which drive out when you want to shoot
its from "traumschiff surprise - Perionde 1" (in german)

toneddu2000 wrote:


Now we've to decide:if we choose "open model" now that ihsan made the left- right steering animation, I'll continue with percival v1, in the other way, I'll begin tomorrow with texturing and rigging the closed version. By the way, in spiderbot, there's a modeled HUD, do I realize a car hud also for the closed version or the cam will switch to third person when the player come in?

The model is looking good.

Don't switch to 3rd person: that's not that cool (IMHO). Make a hud.

If a person want's 3rd person they can always bind a chase camera button.
Immersion requires first person.

I agree with you, tundramagi. I'll realize a H.U.D. for the car. But I'll model only what the camera can see: steer and the dashboard (to save tris!)

＠Flying Steel:
Sure, UT3 and Crysis may use a lot more polys than Nexuiz, however, their engines are a lot more advanced and can handle stuff like that. Darkplaces as I've seen isn't as friendly when it comes to high poly count, also keep in mind that this is a fast pasted shooter which means the higher the poly count the worse you will perform. In the end you'd probably bring the graphics down. I'm just saying 20.000 tris for a vehicle for Darkplaces is very very much.
LoD could work but before doing super high poly models one would need to try it out before telling people to not worry about the poly count.

If Nexuiz would go to the UT3 standard not many people would be able to play Nexuiz at all.

Another thing, games do indeed count in tris and not quads, well not only games really. A polygon is a surface with 3 points, connect these 3 points with lines and you'll get a polygon. So when one says 10.000 polys one means 10.000 tris.
I do agree though that certain people break from this convention and when they say 10.000 polys they mean 10.000 quads which will make it 20.000 tris. This is wrong and should not be encouraged.

ai wrote:＠Flying Steel:
Sure, UT3 and Crysis may use a lot more polys than Nexuiz, however, their engines are a lot more advanced and can handle stuff like that. Darkplaces as I've seen isn't as friendly when it comes to high poly count, also keep in mind that this is a fast pasted shooter which means the higher the poly count the worse you will perform. In the end you'd probably bring the graphics down. I'm just saying 20.000 tris for a vehicle for Darkplaces is very very much.

Do those games really do that much of the work, or is it the GPU? My impression was the latter.

Except for LoDs, but I've got a strong "if you build it, the support will come" impression of Darkplace's LoD support; when there are alot of good GPL models around that have LoDs, the devs will start to develope solid LoD support into Nexuiz/Darkplaces.

LoD could work but before doing super high poly models one would need to try it out before telling people to not worry about the poly count.

I was more offering a guestimate ceiling, or maximum for how big the biggest LoD of the biggest vehicles should not surpass.

If Nexuiz would go to the UT3 standard not many people would be able to play Nexuiz at all.

UT3 I'm sure has support for older machines, in addition, that games has a massive amount of content that we couldn't achieve overnight working on our freetime. By the time we have enough UT3-level content to depict everything in a particular match, the GPUs needed to run it will be found in bargain bins.

Another thing, games do indeed count in tris and not quads, well not only games really. A polygon is a surface with 3 points, connect these 3 points with lines and you'll get a polygon. So when one says 10.000 polys one means 10.000 tris.

Not really, a polygon is a shape with 3 or more sides. A "polygon" just means "many-sides".

In other words, a triangle is a specific type of polygon, the minimum requirement of a polygon.

This might be why some folks use vertex count instead.

Sven wrote:
this vehicle would be awesome it has 2 miniguns which drive out when you want to shoot
its from "traumschiff surprise - Perionde 1" (in german)

reminds me of the cabs at the beginning of the 5th element.

as kindof an ode to Robocop 1 , name the car 6000 S.U.X .

hey its comming along nicely , you do great work . cant wait to use it .

Vertex count is the most objective.
It wouldn't matter whether you used GL_POLYGON, GL_QUAD or GL_TRIANGLE because everything is likely to be triangulated inside GPU anyway.

Mizu Kitsune wrote:

Sven wrote:
this vehicle would be awesome it has 2 miniguns which drive out when you want to shoot
its from "traumschiff surprise - Perionde 1" (in german)

reminds me of the cabs at the beginning of the 5th element.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anH8nXAjnKw-the best scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UJ5CKLD3Wc&feature=relatedspace taxi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j40HL0mY0FM-more of the space taxi

Sven wrote:

Mizu Kitsune wrote:

Sven wrote:
this vehicle would be awesome it has 2 miniguns which drive out when you want to shoot
its from "traumschiff surprise - Perionde 1" (in german)

reminds me of the cabs at the beginning of the 5th element.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anH8nXAjnKw-the best scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UJ5CKLD3Wc&feature=relatedspace taxi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j40HL0mY0FM-more of the space taxi

I have the movie, its one of my fav. i'll use that car reference for my game.

A simple question ... why do u all ever want to have stupid toys from stupid movies ?
really i see ppl doin great works ... and what i find everywhere are the answer threads :
"make this one from that movie bla bla" ...
Only want to say ... how about to make real own ideas ?
If u arent able to modle things urself u shouldn tell others to make ur favorite toy from ur favorite movie. <_> ...

really i dont want to see nexuiz going to be one of those stupid games that copy nearly everythin ppl like ...

Doc-Pyton wrote:A simple question ... why do u all ever want to have stupid toys from stupid movies ?
really i see ppl doin great works ... and what i find everywhere are the answer threads :
"make this one from that movie bla bla" ...
Only want to say ... how about to make real own ideas ?
If u arent able to modle things urself u shouldn tell others to make ur favorite toy from ur favorite movie. <_> ...

really i dont want to see nexuiz going to be one of those stupid games that copy nearly everythin ppl like ...

You could make some original GPL vehicles for nexuiz. Will you do that?
It's actually hard to make anything original, for instance, that gun you posted recently is a FAMAS with an alternative barrel shroud and grip. It's not completely original, but most things cannot be as most things have allready been done.

Think of the people suggesting these things as their way of saying "I want a fast futuristic car" etc, ofcourse do not follow their advice completely, infact only follow it if you too want a fast futuristic car.

Anyway, I like the idea of a wheeled vehicle that has to obey the law of gravity (because they're fun), though I'm sure there will be many diffrent vehicles (hopefully .)