I've updated the Nexuiz site with information on the project, and addressed a few issues people are having on the main site.

There are issues arising from this change from a developer standpoint that I am addressing. If you need to discuss this change with me please email me at vermeulen@alientrap.org .
I understand the anger and problems fans are having with this change and what could have been handled better by me personally. In the end I feel this is beneficial to the open source Nexuiz and what I hope the future of Alientrap will be.

IF Nexuiz and the commercial non Free console variant is indeed equal, please figure out a frontpage design that give them at least equal space on the frontpage and don't just push down the Nexuiz video like that. Thanks.

It's an important announcement that I want people to see on the main page. It will not push down the video for long

I understand that to its fullest extent. I would not be that concerned regarding this if you would be kind enough to give a end date for this, so we all know what "for long" means.
Anyhow, I still don't see a reason for why both can not have the same exposure on the frontpage. Thanks for your quick response.

As opposed to having a knee-jerk negative reaction and crying fowl, I'd like to wish you guys luck with this venture.


edit: I should say, I wish you luck as long as a new version of ctf_greatwall makes it in ;DDDDDD

"No new content of Illfonic's art will be GPL or added to Alientrap's development of Nexuiz,"

Understood, and I don't think anybody wants it to since both styles are equally kick ass and that would make it easier for the games to be seperate entities that take place either in different parts of the universe or in different time periods. Personally I think this would be a good game to explain story wise how the Nexuiz began.


"although the project will benefit from advances in the engine's technology."

That'll be cool if your not pulling our leg on this one. Time will tell.

although the project will benefit from advances in the engine's technology.

Wil the artist pipeline be improved? Better exporting tools for Blender perhaps, or a better and easier way to get animated characters into Nexuiz?

so if I understand well, nexuiz today code is about to be duplicated: one version will keep on evolving by Alientrap, and the other will be frozen to develop the console version.
But, how will both versions be related in the future, in particular for next releases of Nexuiz console version?

I'm very looking forward the console version to spectate the console version top players.
I always though console joypad is intrinsically suboptimal for playing FPS. Many console players told me i'm wrong.
We'll see...

Lee_Stricklin wrote:[....] seperate entities that take place either in different parts of the universe or in different time periods. Personally I think this would be a good game to explain story wise how the Nexuiz began. [....]

Same what i thought!

I'm a bit dissapointed, though; a closed-source version of Nexuiz.... That's a bit like cheesetoast - but without cheese. And without the toast. :/
Cheesetoast isn't that healthy, anyway, so.... nevermind. Ignore some things i say.

But let's get serious again: should it keep the name?
It does look different, i'm sure the gameplay is different, too, and it's closed-source. Either game should have something appended to the name, like "Nexuiz Era", for example, or "Nexuiz: Origins". What do you think?

Edit:
Holy crap.

I'm going to keep it short, no more Nexuiz, or Alientrap software for me.

Can you also move the video back on top and the images down? False advertisement much? Unless you want people to dig the non-free Nexuiz instead, and just forget about the free Nexuiz quickly.

Fred1 wrote:Can you also move the video back on top and the images down? False advertisement much? Unless you want people to dig the non-free Nexuiz instead, and just forget about the free Nexuiz quickly.

The video is now back on top

I really like how the console / pc Nexuiz looks, art and stylistically speaking... however I don't own a PC nor any Console, so chances of getting to play it are slim :*( .. Unless by "PC" you mean "Mac / Linux / Windows/ Et Al" ... in which case, Wooh!

I hope everything works out for you Alientrap guys, (e.g. you get some good royalties and can produce some more sweet games in the future) .. I see the reason for using Nexuiz for the name as to bring more attention, people will play "Paid" Nexuiz on their console, then look online for tutorials and discover a free non-console version and whala! (1)

(1) one would hope.

--- It'd be rad if those, uh, console guys.. would contribute to the ART/MAPS for free-nexuiz as well

I wanted to register just to say that I'm a big fan of the project and I've been playing for years... Congratulations on the expansion into the console arena! I've noticed a lot of open source projects making some really smart decisions to fund the projects and make money(For example, Ubuntu's next release will feature Yahoo as the default search provider. I'm Not a big fan of yahoo but if that's who is going to help fund Ubuntu then I'll use them!). I hope more people will see that open source doesn't have to mean non-profit and while I don't know if profit is your goal, I certainly hope you are profitable. Anyways, this seems like some pretty big news and wanted to say congrats.

[quote="ian0mackenzie"]I hope more people will see that open source doesn't have to mean non-profit and while I don't know if profit is your goal,[/quote]

The main goal of nexuiz is providing free, fun and high qualitiy gameplay.

just a dumb question:

how is it possible to make a closed-source project derived off of a gpl open-source project?

uhm...
that doesnt work out.

and even if they keep the gpl part (engine i guess) open and they compile it together with their parts (which they have to, to distribute it on consoles)
the closed part must get open....

hmm.... i dont get it.

Vermeulen, thanks for doing what I wanted, not what I asked for. ;)

lopho wrote:just a dumb question: how is it possible to make a closed-source project derived off of a gpl open-source project? hmm.... i dont get it.

There is no such thing as stupid questions, just stupid answers here and there.

:|
WHY, oh why on earth is the phpBB code off again?
Can someone please fix that? Thanks in advance.

so the engine as it is, will stay open source, and if they have to modify the engine itself it will either be by keeping the functions on a seperate stack/module that just gets executed by the engine, keeping it closed as it is not in the engine itself, OR the engine will be modified and the change released under gpl....

means the engine has to have such capabilities of loading the added stuff, so the api/abi will be open....
and if the engine gets some nice little tweaks it will be no problem to include it in the original nexuiz...
but wouldnt that have quite some perfomance problems compared to including all the stuff in the engine itself?

nvmd
... sounds fine.

* This in no way means the development of the cross platform Nexuiz will stop. Nexuiz has always been a community driven project and will continue to be so, the PC and Console version will be completely separate entities. Development of the cross platform Nexuiz will continue to be open. No new content of Illfonic's art will be GPL or added to Alientrap's development of Nexuiz, although the project will benefit from advances in the engine's technology.
* If the game is successful there will be royalty in the way of percentage of the game's profits once it is sold. Since Nexuiz is a community driven project Alientrap will be open with the royalty rates, these profits will help to maintain and develop Nexuiz along with Alientrap's projects in the future. Terms of the agreement are confidential but Alientrap will be open to it's developers on the splits the company receives.
* The Nexuiz.com domain has been personally given to Illfonic by me in order to help spread the word on the new project.


that is good!

Great, good luck on this!!!

Im sure that this will attract more people to the open nexuiz

@lopho
If im not wrong, only Illfonic will have the right over the new code, if they agree to free some parts of the modifications, that will be available for the use on the open source nexuiz (maybe most changes will be specific for the console type and not very useful for nexuiz)

This can answer many questions
http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html

lopho wrote:just a dumb question:

how is it possible to make a closed-source project derived off of a gpl open-source project?

By asking for getting it under a proprietary license from the authors.

[quote="some-guy"][quote="lopho"]
just a dumb question:

how is it possible to make a closed-source project derived off of a gpl open-source project?
[/quote]
By asking for getting it under a proprietary license from the authors.
[/quote]

uhm.... somehow i dont believe it would be that easy getting all the OKs from every person that contributed code past and present....

lopho wrote:some how i dont believe it would be that easy getting all the OKs from every person that contributed code past and present....

You only need permission from the people who's work you are actually using, and the engine is under LH's and ID softwares sole copyright. As fro the content, i guess most of it will be made new, and as for the parts that are used, the authors can be contacted.

[quote="lopho"][quote="some-guy"][quote="lopho"]
just a dumb question:

how is it possible to make a closed-source project derived off of a gpl open-source project?
[/quote]
By asking for getting it under a proprietary license from the authors.
[/quote]

uhm.... somehow i dont believe it would be that easy getting all the OKs from every person that contributed code past and present....[/quote]


Not a dumb question at all. It's not possible to magically rescind your GPL'ed code. If I'm correct I think the plan was to use the same GPL'ed core engine and code and develop new close sourced game assets (models, music,etc.)

GPL FAQ
http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html

Software Freedom Law Center
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_F ... Law_Center
http://www.softwarefreedom.org/

FSF
http://www.fsf.org/

GPL Violations Mailing List
http://lists.gpl-violations.org/mailman/listinfo/

How about multiplayer protocol compatibility?
I'd like to see console version and PC version players connected to the same servers.
Console version can be closed code with modified engine and other media files but once it could be connected to Nexuiz GPL server it could download needed files to work on these serwers with Nexuiz players. I've got friends who would like to play Nexuiz and do have PS3 but don't have PCs or their PCs are to slow for Nexuiz.
Will this "new game" based on Nexuiz support USB/Bluetooth keyboard and mouse on PS3/XBOX 360?

You can forget that, they said they won't

[quote="xeros"]their PCs are to slow for Nexuiz.[/quote]

What are their graphics settings? I am running Nexuiz on an old Mac Mini G4 1.42Ghz PPC with the built-in ATI graphics at low settings and it runs plenty fast. I use the default setting on the lowest graphics configurations, I have gibs/guts turned off.

Dear Alien Trap,

The GNU GPL is not "Open Source Software" it is Free Software. The Free Software movement was created in 1983. It says that the four freedoms of Free Software are the freedom to use the software how we want, modify it how we want, copy it how we want, and make modified versions how we want.

As such, it is about freedom and not price. The GNU GPL was written as a license to guarantee these four freedoms to all computer users. Nexuiz is under the GNU GPL.

I have written to GNU about this and it appears that what you are doing is legal. (I thought it might be some sort of breech of license but I was informed [though the person said it was not legal advice] that it is legal to have a program under more than one license.)

Sense what you are doing seems legal, and thus likely can not be stopped as a breech of license, might I pose a question?

How many people have worked on this engine over the years? How many of them knew that it was going to brought onto consoles under a non-free license? And, if they do not agree with their contributions being used in such a manner, can they request that their contributions be removed for the non-free console versions? If not, though not illegal, is this not some form of theft of their creative energies?

I am not against selling Nexuiz. Free Software is all about freedom. I could legally sell Nexuiz for profit, everyone can. (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html) It's the lack of freedom for the console versions under the non-free license that is against the GNU GPL.

If you were afraid that Nexuiz could not get onto consoles under the GNU GPL; then wouldn't people who honor Free Software, the freedoms the GNU GPL guarantees to all users, and the contributions that fans have made to Nexuiz in the spirit of freedom and the GNU GPL boycott such restrictive platforms until they change their ways and welcome to GNU GPL? Rather, Nexuiz was re-licensed as non-free to accommodate platforms that do not care for freedom. To me, this is not ethical. Though, as I have been told after asking, is technically still legal.

Here is my honest question for you. Nexuiz is one of the best known and most loved Free Software games. In many ways you have set the standard for what collaborative people working together in freedom under the GNU GPL can do. You have created a great game and have earned much respect this way. You are a standard setter in this very new and very small field of Free Software Gaming. My question is what example, what standard are you setting with this action?

What you have done has made Free Software development little more than low cost beta testing for non-free game development. People donate their time and creativity for a project that they intend to be for everyone to be able to contribute to. Yet, you have turned around and are intending to make non-free console versions based off of their work.

As a standard in this field, the message you are sending to the Free Software Gaming world is that Free Software will stay Free Software insofar as it doesn't catch the attention of a non-free publisher. If it does, instead of demanding freedom for the console versions and denying the game to the non-free publisher if they do not comply with the GNU GPL; you have embraced their non-free license for the console versions with open arms.

This means that all Free Software Game projects who's teams do not care about Freedom and the cooperative values therein are also subject to this betrayal should then ever become as popular, well designed, and noticed as Nexuiz has. It is a hard hit to this small community. And as a standard setter you run the risk of making this the trend and even the, "norm."

It was the values of freedom and cooperation enshrined in the GNU GPL and the Free Software movement that made Nexuiz what it is today. Have you forgotten this? Have the fans?

Tremulous (whose engine is Free Software under the GNU GPL though its artwork is under a different license) almost did the same as you. But their fans told them that they did not agree. They were so moved by the response they got in the name of freedom and cooperation that they canceled their plans for a non-free console version and decided to keep Tremulous as Free Software. I ask you to consider doing the same.

"Dear Tremulous Community,

This is the second time in such a short amount of time that we have a monumentous announcement to make. The overwhelming concern of the Tremulous players has been staggering, we never dreamed that our fans were so loyal to our cause. It brings a tear to my eye remembering the thousands of e-mails we received from players around the world, expressing concern over the future of their beloved game.

We, Darklegion Development, have decided to break off the partnership with Microsoft and continue to pursue our own interests in the direction of Tremulous. It may not be the financially best choice to make in these troubling times, but this is a decision reached with our hearts not with our wallets.

Once again, we are extremely grateful for your trust in open source and Tremulous; we highly value each and every one of our loyal fans!

<3 Darklegion Development "

http://tremulous.net/