<RoKenn {X}> cheating_guy, why do you always go to spec mode? ^^
<parasti> maybe because it's a long fall down
<parasti> spec->join is faster
<.TheSmasher42.> so he chooses the winning team pfff
<cheating_guy> nope i dont
<RoKenn {X}> no, he doesn't switch
<cheating_guy> its just faster then dying
<RoKenn {X}> but more annoying
<cheating_guy> who cares?
<RoKenn {X}> i do
<cheating_guy> pity

So, people cut down the respawn time for falling into space by doing a spec/join cycle.

I consider this clearly as a cheat. I have seen 2 people doing this already.

(I anonymized the name of the cheater in the log above)

I do this a lot, too, especially on maps like dance or facing worlds where it can easily take several seconds to die after falling off the map (which is sometimes longer than the time I managed to survive since spawning). The only serious problem I see with this is that the kill is not counted for the opponent (if any). It's probably worth mentioning that the same "cheat" is often used to change the team quickly (usually moving the player to the losing team).

parasti wrote:especially on maps like dance or facing worlds where it can easily take several seconds to die after falling off the map

That time belongs to the gameplay and avoiding it with using an administrative feature is clearly cheating.

Using it for switching to the loosing/smaller team is ok, imho, because that is an administrative action too. And switching to the loosing team should be encouraged, if there is a strong imbalance.

I agree with Rokenn on this one. Its fair enough if say you have lasered yourself off the edge by accident, but if someone else has shot you off the edge you have just stolen a kill from them.

Damn, that's silly. I don't think it's ever fair, even if you fall off yourself. Just ride it out or fall less :}

Five second countdown before going to spec mode then, as with the kill delay?

To respawn faster going through spec mode is clearly abusing the gameplay : one can take more risk without negative impact on his personal score and without losing time. If you are pushed in the void by someone, the attacker doesn't get the frag, but still loses ammos and hp in the combat, and has even less time to pickup items to refuel. etc.

I suppose a simple delay before joining back the game or the same team again will prevent that and the spam message in the notify area. I always keep an eye on it, particularly the join game message in ctf because too many players switch to the winning team during a game... The time I take to figure out what exactly happened advantage the opposite team. I prefer to not imagine dozens of people causing "join game" message.

Fair or unfair, going into spectator mode or disconnecting should count as a death in any case, attributing the kill as usual.

PinkRobot wrote:Five second countdown before going to spec mode then, as with the kill delay?

Yeah that would probably work...

parasti wrote:Fair or unfair, going into spectator mode or disconnecting should count as a death in any case, attributing the kill as usual.

If you're shot and disconnect 10 seconds after, it would still count as a kill then... Doesn't sound like a good solution to me.

FruitieX wrote:

PinkRobot wrote:Five second countdown before going to spec mode then, as with the kill delay?

Yeah that would probably work...

Except that it would discourage people from switching in case of imbalance...

A 5-second delay, as it exists for f5 now, has the disadvantages that it:

* discourages people from switching
* makes several people switch simultaneously, because players #3 and #7 will both use f5 and see only 5 seconds later that the other one also switched

An ideal solution would only enforce a 5-second delay for rejoining the same team.

RoKenn wrote:An ideal solution would only enforce a 5-second delay for rejoining the same team.

Agreed.

I was imagining the delay to be before you went to spec mode, RoKenn's solution is better.

Then I can easily write an alias switching me to the other team, and back in the good one.


(Sorry, that's probably nitpicking...)

I would like too have a solution similiar to RoKeen's in ordinary DM, its just really really annoying.

Mr. Bougo wrote:(Sorry, that's probably nitpicking...)

No, it's not. I fear that's exactly what will happen...

The only way would be to have a timer for each team, that is set to 10 seconds on leaving the team. And on trying to rejoin the same team after less than 10 seconds, the remaining time is counted down.

(and probably someone will find the next abuse then )

Mr. Bougo wrote:If you're shot and disconnect 10 seconds after, it would still count as a kill then... Doesn't sound like a good solution to me.

Does it count as a kill if I am shot and 10 seconds later fall into space due to my own stupidity? I hope not. All I'm suggesting is to make disconnecting/going into spectator mode equivalent to "falling into space" from my example. And this is only aimed at solving the truly unfair unregistered kills/score changes, not the quick respawns.

parasti wrote:

Mr. Bougo wrote:If you're shot and disconnect 10 seconds after, it would still count as a kill then... Doesn't sound like a good solution to me.

Does it count as a kill if I am shot and 10 seconds later fall into space due to my own stupidity? I hope not.

It does... Not sure about the times, though.

When you get shot, two of your player entity variables are set, to the attacker and the last time you were attacked. If, when you die, the interval between the death and the last attack is low enough, it counts as a kill. If the interval is too large, it's a suicide.

That's what I thought, but I don't think it is 10 seconds.

parasti wrote:And this is only aimed at solving the truly unfair unregistered kills/score changes, not the quick respawns.

Cutting down the respawn time is unfair as well.

You are defending your flag. An attacker comes, shoots you into space, grabs your flag and starts running away. You spec/play and laser him into space.

With the normal gameplay the attacker would gain a head start by shooting you into space, by removing the fall/respawn time you change the rules to your advantage.

Parasti's solution is not bad here-counting the disconnect as a death I mean getting + 1 death on you is the least of your concerns when you dc since you get a new profile with zero points from scratch next time you log back in.As for the extra kill someone gets for this its not that great...But on the level's of fairness Samuel's idea is the best.Getting a delay for only rejoining the same team the abuses are fixed and no practical reason of the switch is taken in the fray as a sorry loss.

I have a suggestion.

Make spectating have the same delay and effect as the suicide command, then place the player into spectator mode after the player is killed.