This is id software's licensing link. LET THEM KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.

licensing@idsoftware.com

Lee_Stricklin wrote:This is id software's licensing link. LET THEM KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.

licensing@idsoftware.com

That is worth a try (although I don't wish to see the new project harmed either) but someone mentioned that Illfonic already spoke to ID software and solved things with them

You can try, but I can tell you in advance that it *most likely* is not a GPL violation, EVEN though the authors of some code included had not been asked and thus some parts ARE under the GPL.

Executables link to libraries using a function table and library name table. This is commonly accepted as "dynamic linking" to one whole and requires the GPL to apply to both parts, or none.

However, is e.g. setmodel()ing a model with hardcoded file name linking too? One could claim that this is also just like loading a function from a library, as the model is "linked" to (hardcoded file name) and provides an "interface" (how it looks, size of the bbox).

What about, e.g., calling QC functions from other files? .bsp files contain a section that calls functions of the QC code in a defined sequence. Isn't that like linking to a library too?

And of course, what about selling a CD with "one product". They do not sell "a game engine and various singular files for it". They sell ONE GAME on their disc. Thus, the whole game (the disc) should be able to be seen as a derived work of any of the source components.

None of the legal questions here have been decided in any court yet. The law and the GPL are somewhat unclear about this, and common interpretations differ. Bringing that to court would result in the answer to a long open question being revealed. However, it would be a very dangerous case, as the legal situation is quite unclear. Also, it won't help Nexuiz for sure.

oh if i understand, they have 2 nexuiz!

Ok, I've been thinking and I have an idea. Would like to know what others think in case this is achievable (with a small effort from Illfonic's side).

In case we won't convince Illfonic to change their minds and the new game's name will remain Nexuiz. Maybe we can go the other way around, and rather than trying to separate the two games, make them a whole. The new Nexuiz is supposed to be for XBox / Playstation only, right? So if Illfonic promises (not only with words!) that their game will never be released for PC, then theirs can officially be the Nexuiz version for consoles while ours the Nexuiz version for PC, therefore keeping a single Nexuiz and drawing a clear line between the two. Of course this wouldn't fix anything... just thinking what the best thing to do at this moment would be.

Of course the differences would need to remain clear (that there are different teams working on each project and one is commercial while the other is not). If Illfonic are not the people we thought they are, they can turn nexuiz.com into an introduction page containing just two large logos. One would be called "Nexuiz for XBox / PS3 (or console) by Illfonic" and the other "Nexuiz for PC (GPL or other optional details here) by Alientrap", each leading to its page. That way the confusion would be cleared for BOTH projects, and BOTH would benefit from this. Anyone accessing nexuiz.com would find exactly what they're looking for, and Nexuiz would be kept whole under reasonable and clear conditions.

MirceaKitsune wrote:Ok, I've been thinking and I have an idea. Would like to know what others think in case this is achievable (with a small effort from Illfonic's side).

In case we won't convince Illfonic to change their minds and the new game's name will remain Nexuiz. Maybe we can go the other way around, and rather than trying to separate the two games, make them a whole. The new Nexuiz is supposed to be for XBox / Playstation only, right? So if Illfonic promises (not only with words!) that their game will never be released for PC, then theirs can officially be the Nexuiz version for consoles while ours the Nexuiz version for PC, therefore keeping a single Nexuiz and drawing a clear line between the two. Of course this wouldn't fix anything... just thinking what the best thing to do at this moment would be.

Of course the differences would need to remain clear (that there are different teams working on each project and one is commercial while the other is not). If Illfonic are not the people we thought they are, they can turn nexuiz.com into an introduction page containing just two large logos. One would be called "Nexuiz for XBox / PS3 (or console) by Illfonic" and the other "Nexuiz for PC (GPL or other optional details here) by Alientrap", each leading to its page. That way the confusion would be cleared for BOTH projects, and BOTH would benefit from this. Anyone accessing nexuiz.com would find exactly what they're looking for, and Nexuiz would be kept whole under reasonable and clear conditions.

I like that idea. I would still like to see the code opened, but I like the idea of two side-by-side Nexuiz. The console and PC versions have their own look to them with the two easily taking place in different time periods. I think the console Nexuiz could be how it all began while the PC Nexuiz takes place further into the future.

Sounds like the most reasonable thing to do, given the present circumstances.

I wonder when Illfonic guys will appear here on the forums as they promised to. If we cannot discuss this with them, such ideas are worthless.

MirceaKitsune wrote:Ok, I've been thinking and I have an idea. Would like to know what others think in case this is achievable (with a small effort from Illfonic's side).

In case we won't convince Illfonic to change their minds and the new game's name will remain Nexuiz. Maybe we can go the other way around, and rather than trying to separate the two games, make them a whole. The new Nexuiz is supposed to be for XBox / Playstation only, right? So if Illfonic promises (not only with words!) that their game will never be released for PC, then theirs can officially be the Nexuiz version for consoles while ours the Nexuiz version for PC, therefore keeping a single Nexuiz and drawing a clear line between the two. Of course this wouldn't fix anything... just thinking what the best thing to do at this moment would be.

Of course the differences would need to remain clear (that there are different teams working on each project and one is commercial while the other is not). If Illfonic are not the people we thought they are, they can turn nexuiz.com into an introduction page containing just two large logos. One would be called "Nexuiz for XBox / PS3 (or console) by Illfonic" and the other "Nexuiz for PC (GPL or other optional details here) by Alientrap", each leading to its page. That way the confusion would be cleared for BOTH projects, and BOTH would benefit from this. Anyone accessing nexuiz.com would find exactly what they're looking for, and Nexuiz would be kept whole under reasonable and clear conditions.

That is a good idea, but do you think they'll accept it?

I'm pessimistic about this, so I'll stop here.

My first feeling on this was of disappointment.
I do not own a modern gaming console and have no interest in playing a FPS on a console. I was hoping for something exciting and fresh for Nexuiz(GPL)

My second feeling on this was sadness
I am just some idiot who posts on the forums and plays Nexuiz once in a while. Yet , I found out about this the same time as most of the programmers and contributors. These people have given countless hours to the Nexuiz community. Their time is a gift to all of us in this community and they deserved better.

My third feeling was anger
Nexuiz is not just a name. Nexuiz is our community .
To sell the name and domain is a blow to our community.

this is true

Silica Gel: Do Not Eat wrote:Nexuiz is not just a name. Nexuiz is our community .
To sell the name and domain is a blow to our community.

Amen - i quote that in my sig.

Ok, nexuiz go on console {maybe add a other name or Subtitles like nexuiz: age victorian... For don't create a confusing}. 3 question rest in my head, 1) alientrap continue to add a new version for nexuiz on pc? 2) nexuiz rest really free for ever on pc? 3) nexuiz on console is in the past of nexuiz pc or after ? {i have only a pc and the ds tank <the first ds> i just want know}

azultain wrote:Ok, nexuiz go on console {maybe add a other name or Subtitles like nexuiz: age victorian... For don't create a confusing}. 3 question rest in my head, 1) alientrap continue to add a new version for nexuiz on pc? 2) nexuiz rest really free for ever on pc? 3) nexuiz on console is in the past of nexuiz pc or after ? {i have only a pc and the ds tank <the first ds> i just want know}

A brief summary: Nexuiz was developed for PC (Linux, MacOS, Windows). On 1st of March 2010 it has been revealed that there will be a console version. The PC version is free and open source, the console version will not be free nor open source. What the whole debate is about, is that apart from the code base the console Nexuiz will also use the name "Nexuiz". Since the console Nexuiz isn't Nexuiz but just makes use of the image that the Nexuiz community has built up, this community feels... ripped off.

It is hard to say what the future of Nexuiz (the real, original, PC one) will be, people talk about forking (making a new game from the existing Nexuiz) and other stuff. But the current version of Nexuiz (the real, original, PC one) will stay free, as you cannot change the license of the content back once you released it under GPL as far as I know. What will happen to future versions of Nexuiz (the real, original, PC one), is uncertain, though.

1) alientrap continue to add a new version for nexuiz on pc?

thats sure, maybe the only thing at the moment

2) nexuiz rest really free for ever on pc?

from the point of illfonic yes, but they can change thier minds. No one made really a statement so far to that point

3) nexuiz on console is in the past of nexuiz pc or after ?

it will be a new game, but it uses many parts of the pc version

Someone should post a good summary to Digg/Slashdot etc. Link them to the forums and various sites that have already been created about this.

I wonder if TZork or Div0 have been approached yet. The console version is already confirmed to be running off of Dark Places and to my understanding div0 seriously busted his ass to overhaul the engine. IF ANY OF HIS CODE IS IN THE CONSOLE VERSION THEN WE HAVE A CLEAR AS DAY GPL VIOLATION. On top of that there is the possibility of smaller patches made by various other people in the community and everything all the way down to the weapon balancing (assuming it's the same) can be challenged.

FruitieX wrote:Someone should post a good summary to Digg/Slashdot etc. Link them to the forums and various sites that have already been created about this.

Agreed. I myself have been posting it every forum I've gone too.

The engine part was properly licensed from me to LordHavoc. Little did I know that it'll be used to hijack the name of this game. Engine wise this is NO GPL violation.

As for the QC part, that was Vermeulen's job and he apparently didn't do it.

Shit. I guess all we can do is run around and spread the bad press and let everybody know exactly what went down here.

1. Hack nexuiz.com => paint a dick on the webpage.

2. Make a copy of nexuiz and start working on so no one will have the idea of selling it.

3. Call Richard Stallman !!

Richard Stallman is a cool guy with a large beard he will help us.. I hope he will be the next guy posting in this thread !

The Illf0nic speaking is not to make you understand something, but to make you bored and buy some PS3 games. Don't trust !

1: I strongly disapprove this. The Nexuiz community doesn't ruin. We build.

2: Why on earth would we do it? Nexuiz will remain Nexuiz. Period.

3: Why do you think he'd be interested?

Agree.

Good Luck and Have Fun :- )
...
bg :- (

means i remember when i starded to play and mapping for Nexuiz (not console version) i had a lot of fun
is only an old black and white photo ...

someone can explain how work really a gpl license?
and Nexuiz (not console version) and all parts of it really under wich license are (i remember is released as a unique part)?
and really a gpl license are relevant for law?

i must remove from my gpl maps the name Nexuiz (not console version) and the Nexuiz (not console version) logo?

ty

Hmmm, this is some interesting development. So the main issue here is the taking-over of the Nexuiz name and the fact that some of the more prominent developers knew nothing about what was going on behind the scenes?

Does anyone know, has a PC version of the Illfonic Nexuiz been confirmed never-to-happen? Seeing how they jumped from PC to consoles, the jump back shouldn't be much of a problem. And if Illfonic Nexuiz goes PC it becomes a direct competitor to what is now the Nexuiz community and the GPL Nexuiz. Add a PR machine, great art and owning the Nexuiz name (owning http://www.nexuiz.com in this age of the internet means almost the same) and you can ask yourself whether the GPL Nexuiz may become more of an appendix, an evolutionary left-over?

halogene wrote:

azultain wrote:Ok, nexuiz go on console {maybe add a other name or Subtitles like nexuiz: age victorian... For don't create a confusing}. 3 question rest in my head, 1) alientrap continue to add a new version for nexuiz on pc? 2) nexuiz rest really free for ever on pc? 3) nexuiz on console is in the past of nexuiz pc or after ? {i have only a pc and the ds tank <the first ds> i just want know}

A brief summary: Nexuiz was developed for PC (Linux, MacOS, Windows). On 1st of March 2010 it has been revealed that there will be a console version. The PC version is free and open source, the console version will not be free nor open source. What the whole debate is about, is that apart from the code base the console Nexuiz will also use the name "Nexuiz". Since the console Nexuiz isn't Nexuiz but just makes use of the image that the Nexuiz community has built up, this community feels... ripped off.

It is hard to say what the future of Nexuiz (the real, original, PC one) will be, people talk about forking (making a new game from the existing Nexuiz) and other stuff. But the current version of Nexuiz (the real, original, PC one) will stay free, as you cannot change the license of the content back once you released it under GPL as far as I know. What will happen to future versions of Nexuiz (the real, original, PC one), is uncertain, though.

holy shit

cortez wrote:

1) alientrap continue to add a new version for nexuiz on pc?

thats sure, maybe the only thing at the moment

2) nexuiz rest really free for ever on pc?

from the point of illfonic yes, but they can change thier minds. No one made really a statement so far to that point

3) nexuiz on console is in the past of nexuiz pc or after ?

it will be a new game, but it uses many parts of the pc version

oh

It's a pity! the turn it takes, if the dev games without leaving the future update and that if one day it becomes payable (nexuiz pc)

Let me put in my two cents here as an open-source developer.

Making open source software is a lot of work. A lot of work. I think it is very selfish for people to expect open source developers to always make their work available “for fun and for free”.

Here is something I posted to Slashdot and to http://maradns.blogspot.com/, my blog:

There is no such thing as a free lunch, and the new economy hasn’t changed that [...] OSS doesn’t mean we have the right to demand all content be free or that we are justified in pirating media and software. OSS means that we can, together, make free content which complements the for-pay content out there.

I think the console version deal is a win-win for everyone: It’s a win for console players who would otherwise not be exposed to Nexuiz; it’s a win for the PC port because improvements to the code will help the PC version of Nexuiz (and make it trivial to port Nexuiz to a re-chipped console to boot), and it’s a win for the developers because they finally will get compensated for their hard work.

The idea that open source software developers should not be compensated for their work is one I find, quite frankly, very disturbing.

halogene wrote:the console version will not be free nor open source.

If they are using the Dark Places engine, they only way they can legally make it non-open source is to license the Quake source code from ID under non-GPL terms, then get permission form every single last person who contributed to Dark Places to have access to the source under a different license.

Personally, I don’t see them doing this. They will either license the Quake3 engine from ID, add their own artwork to it and have it be “Nexuiz” only in name, or they will release the source code for the game engine as required by the GPL. I think they will opt for the second option, so it’s a win for everyone involved: The commercial developers, because they are able to make a kick-ass console game for less money than their competitors, and for us, because we get some code which will make a port of Nexuiz to a modded console trivial.

If they’re extra nice, they may even give us some more maps for GPL Nexuiz for free, which is a very good thing.

There is nothing wrong with the Nexuiz developers wanting to get compensated for their hard work.

It is no problem seing them doing this, as all engine changes are licenced to LH, that way they oinly need agreement with LH and ID, whcih shuold be pretyt manageable.

I also see the benefit possibilities.. Like If i make a really good map, or whatever, I would make it available for IllFonic for monetary compensation, but I'd also make it available for free for the open version.. Everybody wins.

You know, I think Illphonic is doing a good thing. I just read their thread and see they got the license from all of the owners of Nexuiz’s source code so will close the source for the console version; I also notice they have only one person doing the artwork so...

One way Illphonic can help GPL Nexuiz is to use the best GPL Nexuiz maps (with new textures) in the console version of Nexuiz, and compensate the developers of the maps for allowing it to be in the console release. This way, the map makers get compensated for their hard work and are encouraged to make more GPL Nexuiz maps.

Another way Illphonic can help the community is to hire the main Nexuiz developers, giving them steady income, perhaps with a “Google clause” allowing the developers to continue to improve the GPL Nexuiz.

Bottom line: Nexuiz is a commercial-grade game available completely for free. I am pleased to see some of the developers being compensated for their hard work. I hope everyone who has made a significant contribution to Nexuiz who is looking for work is hired by Illphonic and become millionaires. Then they can retire and spend all day making GPL Nexuiz better and better.

Why would Illfonic want this:



Illfonic has absolutely no desire for FOSS media, all they wanted was the name Nexuiz(™), because with it comes:

This is also what I object to. I do not mind if the developers try to make money out of the code they developed.

I do mind, however, if people make money out of a value (the name "Nexuiz") that they very little contributed to without giving back to those who contributed in turn.