This thread concerns the ongoing collaboration effort around a official statement from concerned community members regarding Lee Vermeulen, the founder of our beloved open-source game decided it was time to sell the domain "nexuiz.com" and license the title "Nexuiz" to the colorado based video game developer "Illfonic".

Collaboration platform is HERE!
Please keep a civilized tone and an adequate description of what have transpired, since this might be a text that could be submited to various sources on the net like /. digg and so fourth.
Please choose a Nick and use strong colors (make do with those three)! Thanks!

Seems that 16 can collaborate on one piratepad. So Please no idling on the pad above! Debate would be nice to have here, so that everyone can take a part of it!
I also created another one HERE! Try to keep tis one up to date so eveyone have room to edit and so on.

This thread is for questions and etc regarding the layout and or language. Please post links to other Piratepad-texts if you have a alternative version so people can remix stuff freely and sooner or later merge and solidify a official statement that everyone can sign on.

There is also a suggestion that signatures on the community effort statement is only valid IF there is a signature here in this thread AND on the document.
Two factor authentication cant go wrong.

Further thoughts?

Let me start of by saying that I do not think this is the best acting to take at this point. We simply don't have the facts completely straightened out yet.

Other than that, I find it very ironic that this document is getting signed by clans and communities, likely without consulting each and every member. That is what got us all into the mess in the first place.

I can honestly say that document was signed by Lee_Stricklin.

merlijn wrote:Let me start of by saying that I do not think this is the best acting to take at this point. We simply don't have the facts completely straightened out yet. Other than that, I find it very ironic that this document is getting signed by clans and communities, likely without consulting each and every member. That is what got us all into the mess in the first place.

Well, this is meant as a draft. People are still working on this, so nothing is set in stone. NOBODY IS SENDING SHIT ANYWHERE. I cant stress this enough. There has still been no feedback from involved parties. This can not be rushed through, then this collaboration effort is wasted.

This draft is also a means of putting pressure on AND let involved parties be heard. To show that, we got our "guns locked and loaded". If more disrespectful tones, then this is met by "gunfire".
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"// Wish by FruitieX and Paperclips ( :> ) to the person who will make the "final" version, even though we almost assume (s)he will do it, just making sure: Post it to the forums and ask around for opinions, many aren't signing due to the fact that this document can change in any way. // surely i will do so - signed eL_Bart0 and btw: YES, this is NOT final yet!"
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paperclips wrote:"// Wish by FruitieX and Paperclips ( :> ) to the person who will make the "final" version, even though we almost assume (s)he will do it, just making sure: Post it to the forums and ask around for opinions, many aren't signing due to the fact that this document can change in any way. // surely i will do so - signed eL_Bart0 and btw: YES, this is NOT final yet!"

Yaarrrrrrr!

There is one thing I like to ensure before I start working on a statement. Since I did not yet contribute to this project in any way, I am in no position to feel offended myself. Therefore, any statement I would draft would be on behalf of those who contributed. This means there should be a general consent amongst those contributors that making a "community statement" is the way to go. Otherwise I'd draft a statement that is not backed by those it concerns.

Who, of those who contributed, think that a "community statement" would be a right step in the first place, the contents of which to be agreed upon as a second step?

There is also a suggestion that signatures on the community effort statement is only valid IF there is a signature here in this thread AND on the document.
Two factor authentication cant go wrong.

The current draft lists {X} as a signing community.
As of now there has been no decision made inside the {X}-community if this statement will be signed by the community or not.
Actually I can't even see a discussion on the {X}-forum yet.

Before you publish this document, please either remove that entry or make sure that the {X}-community does make a decision to support this statement.

Yes this is exactly WHY, I wrote the suggestion about Two factor authentication in OP and the post above yours.

Dont worry, with this measurement and you can check here, we have all a say in this.

So if your name/clan is on the list but not verified by yourself in this thread then it is NOT valid.

Did a bit of work on http://piratepad.net/b3UhzMxPPw, the other one was full. I strongly suggest to first depict what happened and then put in the emotional stuff. I tried to re-structure the already very nice text there. Is my draft safe there or should I post the interim draft here so that I can continue to work on it tomorrow?

I must say first of all I like your version Halogene. Yes, IMHO the statement should be short, really square, adequate description of the events that have taken place.
Second I would like to say:

1: 'Shit' is not being sent anywhere. The collaboration effort is ATM only a "safety", "putting pressure on both sides -function" until something or the LACK of something happens.
Think of it as the communitys (Nexuiz) vs commercial (Non-Free-Nexuiz-Console) ''information-cold war''. The "nukes" are ready.
(IF it were to, then its a leak and this is not good for any part involved. but thanks to number 2, we are safe.)

2: If signatures is not present both here in this thread AND on the statement, then a signature is not valid. This means, security for all involved.
3: People saved revisions all through the night (from my perspective) it seemed!
Big Thanks to: Cribozai, stingray300k, Halogene, unnamed (!?), eL_Bart0, unnamed(!?), FruitieX, AnnKittyKat, unnamed(!?), JulianaStein
These have saved revisions so its easy to restore IF a retard would strike.

thanks - I will continue to work on the statement during the day, however I can't promise any fixed time frames when I will be available for collaboration. I almost don't have any spare time to spare, sadly...

Small update for everyone who doesn't care to read all that text:

I think the work on the document is really productive. Many people contributed to the text already and it shows again how civilized and well-mannered this community is. I think we will be able to finalize this pretty soon. Thanks already to all who contributed.

We would be happy to receive a bit more feedback from the main developers/contributors, though, since this document is intended to represent also their position. It would be cool to know what they think about the general procedure of putting down such a community statement and any feedback would certainly influence the outcome of the document.

I only see this as a positive move for all users of open source games and developers in the future proving that open source doesn't have to mean you can't make a business out of it. bah bah bah free free free. "Unfortunately people in this world need to earn money"

Maybe I am missing something. Why is everyone so annoyed about a game coming out with the same name? That's like saying no one should make a song called Yesterday ever again because The Beatles already did it.

Explain to me how does it effect you? Do you go and riot if someone in school has the same name as you?

This is out of control, incorrect and totally pointless. You get your game, others get a new one. it has the same name, so what?

Xandria wrote:
Explain to me how does it effect you? Do you go and riot if someone in school has the same name as you?

This is out of control, incorrect and totally pointless. You get your game, others get a new one. it has the same name, so what?

[ ] You have read and understood the open letter (or at least tried to)
[ ] You actually spent some time to understand the whole situation
[ ] You actually know what you are talking about

Sorry, i can't find any more suiting words for your posting. Maybe you should first read the "official statements" of Vermeulen and Illfonics. You could find them on this board ... if you actually do care at all.

To all the contributors and the people who actually DO care and know about what's going on: I'm happy to see how you ALL helped to improve this OpenLetter, i started. It's really great to see what we can establish together. Although of course there are a lots of people who don't agree with us, i guess we made our points clear enough so everyone should be able to understand what's going on, if he/she really likes to. I would like to give this thingy another 24 hours to come up with a first "final version" of the letter. What do you think? Please also comment on the fact, if you see any necessity for the openLetter to be signed again by everyone in the final version.

To everyone at Illfonics: I want to emphasize on the point that this has not been sent anywhere, YET. We see this letter as a kind of last resort. We are not the ones who don't want to cooperate in any way. We actually try to achieve a peacefull arrangment with you. If you don't want to listen to us at all and keep ignoring all our suggestions, we may or may NOT use this OpenLetter to take this case up to the next level. You don't want that, and we don't wont it either. So why don't you try find a proper solution TOGETHER with us instead of working against us? You won't find many friends here if you try to silent us, take that as granted. Nexuiz is so much more than only Alientrap and i'm kinda sad you seem to have not noticed this yet.

Disclaimer: Everything represented in here is my personal opinion, but as far as i know this seems to be the consensus amongst the signers of the OpenLetter for the moment.

Over and out for now

-- eL_Bart0

Im Namen der Tunichtguten wrote:Please also comment on the fact, if you see any necessity for the openLetter to be signed again by everyone in the final version.

Not only that, please allow enough time for everyone to check and sign after creating the final version.
Some people might need a day until they notice, and some clans and communities might have to make up their mind(s).

Im Namen der Tunichtguten wrote:.... I would like to give this thingy another 24 hours to come up with a first "final version" of the letter. .... We see this letter as a kind of last resort. ... Nexuiz is so much more than only Alientrap and i'm kinda sad you seem to have not noticed this yet. ... Disclaimer: Everything represented in here is my personal opinion, but as far as i know this seems to be the consensus amongst the signers of the OpenLetter for the moment. ... -- eL_Bart0

It will take way longer than 24h to get everyone to at least know about this. I for one will NOT put a timelimit here. IF this letter would be sent, I will wash my hands since I have NOT signed of the statement in this thread.

Further more, I was annoyed by the time I got to the disclaimer point and good that you pointed out that it is your view on things. I do not share that view, I haven't even started to look at it. But I can not stress this enough, this collaboration was in my mind never a means of THREAT, it was a means for the community so that there was a feeling of "yes things are being dealt with and I can lend a hand as well" instead of a hasty person jump the gun and do _something_ really stupid. So that people could be creative and there was a way easily available way to put this energy into something. THAT is the sole reason I posted the link on IRC so that this collaboration was even possible. Energy have to go somewhere, otherwise things tend to blow up.

The safety for things to not blow up, is the number two and it takes a hell of a pull to fire that trigger.

RoKenn wrote:Not only that, please allow enough time for everyone to check and sign after creating the final version.
Some people might need a day until they notice, and some clans and communities might have to make up their mind(s).

Rest assured, as far as I am concerned this letter is going no where before it has been posted in this forum and received acceptance from a significant amount of the community. Though having edited/created a lot of the letter's text, I myself have not yet signed it, because I don't sign documents that are not final :o)

I myself see the "letter" or whatever not as an attack towards Illfonic nor Lee Vermeulen nor Forest Hale. At least my efforts aim at not making it one. It should also not be a threat of any kind. There have been made moves which were unfortunate and which are, in my opinion, wrong but, and this is the point, easy to correct. From my point of view, the letter is intended to explain the Nexuiz community's feelings about the things that happened and why the vast majority of the Nexuiz community is offended by them. It also intends to show how both sides could benefit from each other and how a mutual benefitting solution can be achieved. The point is, that I don't think the Nexuiz community doesn't want a commercial console Nexuiz kind of game to happen, the Nexuiz community just wants to stay the Nexuiz community and not to be transformed into a weird GPL Nexuiz community or similar by other people. In any case, the least thing I would want is a personal attack on some of the people involved.

Since my spare time is very limited in general and other things in my life tend to take priority, I cannot guarantee I will be ready for a final version within the next 24 hours, but I will try to apply a finishing polish to the text that I already find very agreeable and rational as soon as possible. I vote for finalizing a draft for community forum review until end of Monday, though, in order to allow for a reasonable review of all of the editors.

Anyway, I do agree with eL_bart0 as far as I suppose if Illfonic continues to disrespect the Nexuiz community, then it probably won't make many friends within it.

Xandria wrote:I only see this as a positive move for all users of open source games and developers in the future proving that open source doesn't have to mean you can't make a business out of it. bah bah bah free free free. "Unfortunately people in this world need to earn money"

Maybe I am missing something. Why is everyone so annoyed about a game coming out with the same name? That's like saying no one should make a song called Yesterday ever again because The Beatles already did it.

Explain to me how does it effect you? Do you go and riot if someone in school has the same name as you?

This is out of control, incorrect and totally pointless. You get your game, others get a new one. it has the same name, so what?

Very bad analogy

A better on would be : Some taking your full name (First,Last , Middle) . Moving into your house. Kicking you out of your bed, making you sleep on the floor.
Then telling you that it's a good thing and that you'll eventually benefit from it.

Silica Gel: Do Not Eat wrote:Some taking your full name (First,Last , Middle) . Moving into your house. Kicking you out of your bed, making you sleep on the floor.

I think you forgot the part with the word "girlfriend".

RoKenn wrote:

Silica Gel: Do Not Eat wrote:Some taking your full name (First,Last , Middle) . Moving into your house. Kicking you out of your bed, making you sleep on the floor.

I think you forgot the part with the word "girlfriend".

Umm, excuse me, the Nexuiz Community doesn't support that kind of mysoginy here.

Somone ban this guy or else I will never contribute to Nexuiz!

Tons of quotations of RoKenn showing posts you all allready know about, but as if they are a total bombshell of shocking.

Just (double) confirming: Yes i signed it.

Just confirming that I signed it also.

I have contributed very little to Nexuiz, but am still rather saddened by this issue. I hope it can be resolved reasonably and that IllFonic / AlienTrap will make a respectable decision.

I think the text is ready for posting it on the forums for community review. Those who really would like to contribute to that text, please review the text NOW here: http://piratepad.net/XuNWiA3KMT. I'll be posting it to this thread in a couple of hours so that everybody who wanted to sign it can verify its signature here.

It is NOT a threat nor an attack towards anyone, it is JUST A STATEMENT, intended to communicate in a rational and "non-snappy" way how the community feels about the things that happened.

Naturally, the message of the thread has evolved during editing, so anyone who signed it right at the beginning please be sure to re-read it so that you really agree to it when you sign it.

Again, feedback of the main developers would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks to all the people that contributed to the text. The fact that really no snappy wordings made it into any revision shows again, what I like so much about this community.

I read the latest rev, so far i have no objection.

Confirming that I signed it also.

+1

First of all I would like to say that, the work around this statement embodies the very spirit of the Nexuiz community. There has been non whatsoever idiocy involved! I don't know what to say, other than that I am humbled to be a part of this community and thankful for it and all the work that has gotten into this statement! It is simply amazing!

Confirmed, approved and signed at revision 100.

Signed.

Thanks to all. I would recommend to forum-resign the text at viewtopic.php?t=6079&p=76641, since that thread now contains the text that won't change anymore.

Edit: Reading some IRC logs on chats with Kedhrin, I'd like to add that I really appreciate how he is trying to reach out for the community and to discuss things, though he obviously is not in the position (or doesn't want, who knows) to compromise on the one thing that is upsetting everybody and that is most probably not alone, if at all, his fault. I already tried to redirect the frustration expressed towards him in some parts of the text during my final reviews, and I hope he will not cease to communicate with the community because of this text. Maybe I should have added a paragraph to the text about us appreciating the efforts of Kedhrin to communicate with us?