Singleplayer Story Mode - Ideas/Development [Spoilers!]

[toneddu2000]

IMHO, this is not the correct way to structure a Single Player Game Idea Thread. Fist of all, before the story and machinima or whatever, we should vote for a common game style and start from it. If really the nexuiz community wants to make a SP game that could at least compare with early 2000's games (like return to castle wolfestein, doom3, prey and so on) the PROGRAMMERS have to gather together and say :"OK, we miss this feature, this feature is very important, this not" ,etc. I dont' want to seem pessimistic but I tried many times to realize something decent with other guys over the net and ALWAYS failed. This is the reason because on the net all the open source games are multiplayer. Because, once I've created a bot class,a map and weapons, players kill other players and the game is done. In single player, instead, you have to create a robust structure that consists in:
1a graphic engine that shows eyecandies like realtime soft shadows, at least 1.000.000 tris to show per frame (darkplaces has limits in this case)and many more
2a physics engine that uses ragdoll system for a realistic feedback(so no md3 no mdl but a more poweful version of zym, that I think it's possible ro realize)
3a new level engine, maybe integrated with blender, that can create non-orthogonal maps and can "paint" over the the poligons to create dust, blood, and filthness (like painkiller one)
4a cinematic event, or a half-life like script that permits artists to ideate a scene in real time, where actors speak with a morpheme scheme (like half life 2 or better).
5a "story" event, something visual that artists can use to create in game events, like doom3 or better far cry (see sdk on crymod.com for a clarification): I walk in a corridor, and then, a crate fall down and a monster jump up, etc

If programmers really think that this is possible, THAN artists could start to define something. REALLY, I don't want to seem pessimistic, but I think that this is the basis to make something decent. However I'll support every idea for that game mode because I really want to see an Open Source SP game in the net !

[Sepelio]

I thought the point was just to create a singleplayer with the resources we have pretty much. We don't need to match it up exactly with every modern game. That many engine changes would turn it into a significantly more arduous task than just making an applicable singleplayer campaign.

[toneddu2000]

I thought the point was just to create a singleplayer with the resources we have pretty much. We don't need to match it up exactly with every modern game. That many engine changes would turn it into a significantly more arduous task than just making an applicable singleplayer campaign.

Yes,you'right, but at least scripting events and cinematic are the minimum for a game. If we don't use scripting the game structure is , start - kill enemies - end, it's too linear

[Flying Steel]

I don't think it's really fair to assume that campaigns need bleeding edge graphics and physics while only crap is expected out of custom bot matches and multiplayer. I for one have always held both to the same standards, I don't see a great difference between the two.

Also let's not confuse Nexuiz Developers with being the only available coders. There are folks out there like Psychcf, Mitzu Kitsune and Mand1nga who improve the game even though they don't have trunk commit access or whatever.

And the reason we're working on some content for this instead of saying-

"How do we know there's ever going to be any code for single player?"

Is because if we don't the coders will just say-

"How do we know there's ever going to be any content for single player?"

[toneddu2000]

Also let's not confuse Nexuiz Developers with being the only available coders. There are folks out there like Psychcf, Mitzu Kitsune and Mand1nga who improve the game even though they don't have trunk commit access or whatever.

I'm not confusing them and, instead, I've always admired them!

And the reason we're working on some content for this instead of saying-

"How do we know there's ever going to be any code for single player?"

Is because if we don't the coders will just say-

"How do we know there's ever going to be any content for single player?"

Ok, I agree with you, if there's not cooperation between developers and artists never happens, but, what I want to say, and I hope not to be misunderstood, is that without a robust basis for single player we can't realize a great game. Let's analize the reality: nexuiz has a multiplayer "skeleton", so all the single player parts were removed. It used DarkPlaces, that is derived from Quake, a game released in 1996 (13 years old!), time period for games like duke 3d and shadow warrior, where the basic structure was: kill monsters, get the key, open the door, exit. No routines for scripted events, no ai (except a very basic target search). So what kind of game we can create with this structure?Just today I was thinking that the only game that I (it's only a MY opinion) could imagine is a Seriuos Sam clone, where hordes of monster come and player has super weapons to destroy them. This would be very funny, but here's another problem: DarkPlaces engine (and quake of course) don't manage open spaces and multitudes of tris very well. So, am I in error?

[Sepelio]

Open spaces you say? See http://forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?t=5159 even if it only renders so far, its still a big ass open space.

Either way we can just design the campaign to not have a huge amount of open space. I mean its taking place on a frickin' dyson sphere. I see lots of dark evil tunnels in the style of the MDK games.

[Flying Steel]

Ok, I agree with you, if there's not cooperation between developers and artists never happens, but, what I want to say, and I hope not to be misunderstood, is that without a robust basis for single player we can't realize a great game. Let's analize the reality: nexuiz has a multiplayer "skeleton", so all the single player parts were removed. It used DarkPlaces, that is derived from Quake, a game released in 1996 (13 years old!), time period for games like duke 3d and shadow warrior, where the basic structure was: kill monsters, get the key, open the door, exit. No routines for scripted events, no ai (except a very basic target search).

Nexuiz is not a game from 13 years ago, it is a game mostly from today with parts of a 13 year-old game, like how it handles character animation. But if you know of a better FOSS FPS engine, please feel free to share its name.

So what kind of game we can create with this structure? Just today I was thinking that the only game that I (it's only a MY opinion) could imagine is a Seriuos Sam clone, where hordes of monster come and player has super weapons to destroy them.

I don't understand what that has to do with Nexuiz, a game whose current single player consists of engaging bot enemies of equal physical qualities and a lethal AI.

It seems like gameplay that revolves around killing hordes of weak monsters would be a greater departure from Nexuiz' current state and subsequently take more work to do.

This would be very funny, but here's another problem: DarkPlaces engine (and quake of course) don't manage open spaces and multitudes of tris very well. So, am I in error?

I believe so, I've seen a great many vast open maps of high visual quality and perfectly fine frame rates on my ancient 64mb graphics card.

And divVerent confirmed to me that if there were new character models made with Levels of Detail, LoD code support in the Nexuiz engine would follow. Something similar might also follow for open maps, but that isn't required.

[toneddu2000]

Open spaces you say? See http://forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?t=5159 even if it only renders so far, its still a big ass open space.

You're right it's a very large map, but I didn't count a very huge amount of tris. Imagine that map full of angry soldiers/monsters/whatever and there could be the possibility of a frame rate slow-down. But this should be demonstrate so I could be wrong.

But if you know of a better FOSS FPS engine, please feel free to share its name.

I think Nexuiz IS the best FOSS FPS engine, but this has nothing to do with my motivations, if you didn't understand that, I can't do anything.

I believe so, I've seen a great many vast open maps of high visual quality and perfectly fine frame rates on my ancient 64mb graphics card.

And divVerent confirmed to me that if there were new character models made with Levels of Detail, LoD code support in the Nexuiz engine would follow. Something similar might also follow for open maps, but that isn't required.

If you are so sure that we could realize a game today, I'll give to the future devs of this project my completely support for modeling issues. And now I want to close this useless debate on "who's right and who's not", because my only intent was only to define a concrete list of todo things first to create story, levels, monsters and so on!

[Flying Steel]

I think Nexuiz IS the best FOSS FPS engine, but this has nothing to do with my motivations, if you didn't understand that, I can't do anything.

I'm not talking about your motivations, what I'm saying is two fold:

1) Nexuiz is the best available and thus our starting point if we want to do anything remotely close to this.

2) We have no real competition, so anyone who wants to make a quality FOSS FPS Campaign should help us (Nexuiz Project).

If you are so sure that we could realize a game today, I'll give to the future devs of this project my completely support for modeling issues.

I don't think this can be done today or tomorrow, but I believe this can be done by version 2.6 or 2.7 otherwise I wouldn't be devoting my time to this yet.

And now I want to close this useless debate on "who's right and who's not", because my only intent was only to define a concrete list of todo things first to create story, levels, monsters and so on!

If we want to accomplish more than a UT3 style campaign with only brief text level introductions to advance the plot, then these are the things we will need the engine to support:

Story Features:

1) Cutscenes (realtime or rendered) or textscenes.

2) Triggered in-game special audio clips to advance the story.


Gameplay Features:

3) Quantity limitable, triggered bot spawns.

4) A checkpoint or more advanced in-level save system.

[Sepelio]

DivVerent has said before (I think), Nexuiz will continually change. Thats what makes it open source. People come and go but the game continually gets added to. I think that is our aim in the end.

Personally I think adding a singleplayer story will make the game far more 'full' than it currently is.