Waterlaz don't waste your time


Maybe you can change the physics 'back to the roots' in 2.5.1 ?

As i said.. start a sensible discussion and we'll see.. but if you feel like wasting your time.. fine

start a sensible discussion and we'll see

And by starting a sensible discussion you meen??.... eh.... well ok, i'll try.

1) I don't understand the hole idea of nexuiz 2.5 or as a matter of fact any other major nexuiz release.
The way I see this is that developers just change everything randomly. What's the point in new weapon models, sounds every release? It's not that I want to complain about this too much. And yes, I know I can change this myself. But the hole idea of just keeping people busy rearaging all of this everytime is definetly NOT a good idea for a multiplayer-oriented fps.

2) Any... any change in gameplay, especialy in physics, should be compared to open heart surgery. That is a "NO" unless absolutley have to. What you are doing is loosing people who are realy into nexuiz.
And nexuiz might become just the game for recent switchers to linux, because.. well... they pretty much don't have that big of a choice. And hell.. the servers are ALREADY filled with newbies who've just installed Ubuntu.

3)ehh... I don't know... smth about performance loss but never mind...

In all fairness, there was no way I was going to try playing on a server with 250 ping just to test the new release. (I live in Texas) I would not have gotten a very clear picture of how it would be anyway. There were no 2.5 test servers in North America (or they were discarded by me for ping 140+) and I was never directed by any regulars where I should test it. I'm not one for trying to change things after it's too late, I can play a mod or NANL or something similar.

Open Source is for mods anyway, right? The more the better, in my opinion.

Honestly, I thought the physics were horrible initially (partially due to the fact that I was not acclimated to the changes). Since then, I have adapted to the changes on 2.5 physics, and it's wonderful actually. Although I cannot perform nearly as well in these physics, it does improve the gameplay. It also makes speedcaps and races more difficult for me ;_;.

Perhaps it was quite abrupt to change the physics slightly, but there will always be some complaints whether it's from me, or someone else in the community.

EDIT:

And some of my race times are faster with these physics, fyi.

Waterlaz wrote:1) I don't understand the hole idea of nexuiz 2.5 or as a matter of fact any other major nexuiz release. The way I see this is that developers just change everything randomly. What's the point in new weapon models, sounds every release?

LOL? Maybe we should just re-release 2.5 and call it 2.5.1 because then you would not get major changes? Well back to being reasonable. What do you expect from a new release? Certainly not the same old sh*t right? There have to be changes!

On the other hand the old models were just terrible! Badly done, pointing the wrong way (take a close look, they did not point at the crosshair..), bad textures, a too high poly count. The new models also introduced a new weapon model system which will make it easer for people to do models and slight reduces memory usage as it now only needs two models, not three like the old system. Besides the old models just looked too small and felt like toy guns and not the powerful fraging machines they are.

The new effects and sounds are just badass if you ask me. Done by a professional sound guy. The announcers are much clearer now, the effects sound better and are mixed better..

Nexuiz is basicly in active development. There are changes to be expected! Its not like a point release for quake that just fixes bugs.. Sorry you got that wrong.

The other ting.. all the time? Its been almost a year since the old release. How long do people need to adapt to changes??

Waterlaz wrote:2) Any... any change in gameplay, especialy in physics, should be compared to open heart surgery. That is a "NO" unless absolutley have to. What you are doing is loosing people who are realy into nexuiz.
And nexuiz might become just the game for recent switchers to linux, because.. well... they pretty much don't have that big of a choice. And hell.. the servers are ALREADY filled with newbies who've just installed Ubuntu.

Those changes have been made to make ALL gamemodes more fun and challagning, it seems most people that complain are CTF players or rather cappers. In DM, TDM, MINSTA i never heared a complain, but people actually like those changes.
Also some of the changes were to work around certain weaknesses in prediction (like on terrain maps) and the game did not change very much overall. The starting/stopping got faster because of higher ground friction which makes dodging easier and on the other hand the air friction was raised too so people can make tighter turns but loose a BIT more speed then. Thats all that was done physics wise. If you want to loose less speed now you have to be more gentle now but i think in the long turn this change will make top movers stand out even more once they got used to the changes.

And whats bad about newbies? You just want to play against the same 50 people for the rest of your life? A game needs to get new players, as some will always leave.. be it for being busy with real life or an other hobby, or just dislike changes there were done. Also you never know, maybe one of those new players gets so obsessed with Nexuiz that he tries to make it more popular which would be a good thing. I really do not get that point. Sure, new players mean you get a few bad games as those people need to get used to Nexuiz and how its beeing played but they will learn if we help them and then you get an even better challange. I really do not get your point there!

Waterlaz wrote:3)ehh... I don't know... smth about performance loss but never mind...

Basicly the changes in rendering from 2.4.2 to 2.5 have not been that dramatic. I guess your hardware does not like some of the changes. It just take a few hours to find out what it is. Most problably the higher-resolution lightmaps are a bit too much for your hardware. Try disableing the use of lightmaps in the options. On the other hand there are options to compress the lightmaps, maybe that helps but i have no idea if that looks good. Oh, texture compression in general was also activated, maybe your gfx card dislikes it?

Overall there are many players that think good graphics = good game. Graphics have to improve and stay 'state of the art' to not make the game fall behind other games. Or you will be back at your 'same old 20 oppents you already know' because the others just move on to other games.

Komier wrote:In all fairness, there was no way I was going to try playing on a server with 250 ping just to test the new release. (I live in Texas) I would not have gotten a very clear picture of how it would be anyway. There were no 2.5 test servers in North America (or they were discarded by me for ping 140+)

In all fairness.. I wonder why Z kept some of his Nexuiz Ninjaz server with 2.4.2 physics.. maybe you would have noticed the changes and raised your voice.. well ..




I think people judge too fast and just do not want to adapt. The new changes have not been made to annoy people or for being random. But it improve certain shortfalls in the old physics. I played those for over 2 month now and i'm used to them and they are good.

esteel wrote: the others just move on to other games.

This happens right now with 2.5

Actually i do not notice great changes in player numbers.. and for the 2-3 people that like 'threadend' to leave i do not really care

We are allready far offtopic but ...

Waterlaz wrote:1) I don't understand the hole idea of nexuiz 2.5 or as a matter of fact any other major nexuiz release.

I guess you are talking about the gamemod you are playing. Thats fine, but I tell you about the mods I play: 1v1/TDM.

A lot of the changes in this update done tons of good things for these mods:
- enemy models are a lot smoother then before. I play competetive FPS since I play, and that was one of the most important parts to change!
- Nexuiz feels overall smoother cause of the better performance (took me 20 minutes to set up a good FPS config on my old system)
- FB skins are added/voteable
- Tourney mod is added with timer/ready/notready and more
- The new Physics might be better or worser .. I didnt play since 1 year but i feel comfortable with them and trickjumps I knew are working today, too.
- great weapon changes, especially the crylink is worth using now!
- Weapon/Voice sounds are a lot better

For me this update WAS NEEDED.

Komier wrote: There were no 2.5 test servers in North America (or they were discarded by me for ping 140+)

I ran an svn server. Most peeps have 100 or so ping when not downloading.
When downloading the ping would go to one thousand for everyone except me.
I would then fail to cap etc because even with 1000 ping vs my 30 they could still easily defend their base.

I'd just like to chime in and say that I dont know why the hell anyone would have a problem with the new models and sounds, they are absolutely excellent.

Just take a look at the electro as a prime example to see what I'm talking about. Compare new to old, the new model is absolutely stunning.

Hmm.... about performance...
with 2.4 I could enable bumpmapping and all that fancy stuff. Right now I've tuned everything as low as possible and still have trubles in some moments.
And the mouse... Oh god... The delay between me moving the mouse and the game actually to react on this has grown A LOT.

Hmm, the only thing that really changed graphics wise was higher resolution lightmaps (which get disabled by the "low" button) and the usage of texture compression to help low end graphic cards with some of the larger textures in 2.5. Maybe your graphic card does not like texture compressing? The mouse could a direct result from your (i guess bad fps) but you can tra and see if gl_finish 1 helps (i think its also somewere on the menu.. not sure were though)

We are really getting off-topic though

as far as i see there really no more to say on-topic here. closed.

Actually we just got a bit off topic.. but i do not want people to get the impression we do not like discussions about that topic.
I'm fine with that, so please feel free to start a own thread (maybe it was a bad idea just turn use this thread)

An other try: http://forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?t=4503