More and more lately, I have been feeling the need to shoot and kill players who are typing during the game. Here, I'll explain why.

Imagine this scenario. I know you've seen it a lot. I have seen and experienced this too often.

Story begins...

The scene starts with Doku running around during a CTF match on a lovely server on a lovely day. He is having a most happy time. He actually has a smile on his face as he is playing.

As he's running, he turns a corner and sees an enemy.

dun dun dun

He fires!!! Oh... oops. He then sees that the player has a bubble over their head. He says to himself...

Oh Doku, you shouldn't shoot that person. See the bubble over their head? They are obviously chatting. That would be rude. They don't deserve to be shot. They are just having a nice little chat in the middle of the game.

So then Doku moves on his merry little way. Then suddenly, out of nowhere....BAM! Doku finds himself lying on the ground helplessly.

Oh no! What happened? Someone killed me!!! Who could have done this? Where did they come from?

,says Doku.

He looks at the server messages and sees....*gasp*....the same person who was just chatting a moment ago!!!!!!









Doku was as shocked as them!!!!!!!! (especially the orangutan)

How could that person have done such a cruel thing? Doku was kind and respectful to leave them be, only to have them shoot him in the back!!!! What is wrong with the world?!?!


---------------------


So anyway.... I've seen or experienced this too many times to count. So it's crazy that chatters in the game will complain so much about typefragging when they themselves pull this off all the time. I say screw chatters in game. They should stop complaining about being shot while you are chatting. That is until Nexuiz has some way to reduce this from happening.

Here's an initial idea....

g_chat_protection 1

If someone is chatting for more than 1 second, then they are made transparent and they are invulnerable, but they also can't move and can't shoot for 5 seconds after they stop chatting. This won't be allowed if they have the flag.

Perhaps there can be multiple cvars to adjust it however the server admin wants. Like g_chat_protection_delay would set the amount of time the person is affected after they stop chatting. Maybe g_chat_protection_trigger would define the amount of time needed before a player is in "chat mode".

That's the only solution I can think of right now. What say you?


Edit : maybe g_chat_protection_pause 1 will determine whether the player can't move during the 5 second delay.

Great post Dokujisan, anyways IMHO you either play or type you should expect to get killed, if you really want to type on a safe aka no dying field go to IRC or any other messaging service or spectate.

I feel your pain. This has happened to me a few times


However, I think your idea would be abused.

On some maps it could prevent you from dieing from a fall . If my health is low I could chat
until it regenerated . I could "chat" inside an enemy base until more teammates arrived.
I could chat on top of pickups. What if someone drops a flag on a chatting person?

well...what's an alternative?

Giving, without expecting anything back, made, and continues to make, Nexuiz, and other FOSS projects, possible.

Perhaps the same (doctrine) should apply when you play Nexuiz.

TVR, make better sense, please.
How does whatever-you-just-said apply to this conversation?

I used to stare down enemies typing (often times screwing with them by firing highly visible shots above or past them lol) as I walked past them, but lately I've been finding people abusing the chat bubbles and will shamelessly frag chatters now.

I still stick to the rules of engagement...: This is a game, not a chat room. If you type you are playing with the devil. Typefrags are TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE. If people can't handle it, they should quit gaming and find a website like Facebook or IRC.
Complaining about being killed in a game is... I have no words... honestly.

Don't treat chatters any more different than any other enemy. Do you see people treat them well in other games? I so far haven't.
No need to invent some kind of chat protection and cvars, that's ridiculous.

This has always been how I viewed things, however I sometimes ignore shooting chatters but not always.

Dokujisan wrote:g_chat_protection 1

If someone is chatting for more than 1 second, then they are made transparent and they are invulnerable, but they also can't move and can't shoot for 5 seconds after they stop chatting. This won't be allowed if they have the flag.

Perhaps there can be multiple cvars to adjust it however the server admin wants. Like g_chat_protection_delay would set the amount of time the person is affected after they stop chatting. Maybe g_chat_protection_trigger would define the amount of time needed before a player is in "chat mode".

That's the only solution I can think of right now. What say you?


Edit : maybe g_chat_protection_pause 1 will determine whether the player can't move during the 5 second delay.

Very bad idea. That means that:
- either you will be blocked from at least shooting 5 seconds after a line of chat - EVEN IF IT IS "hey guys in my team, the bad guys with our flag are here!" This would be the end of team communication.
- or, it will be easy to abuse by e.g. opening chat right when a rocket comes, or at least for putting up the type sign, and then backstabbing when someone turns around. Note that the traitor cannot be shot with your protection, so he has ideal chances to backstab once the enemy turns around!

In other words: because of the first point the moving/shooting block for X seconds is harmful. Because of the second point, it's also harmful if you do NOT block moving/shooting for X seconds.

Dokujisan wrote:TVR, make better sense, please.
How does whatever-you-just-said apply to this conversation?

Maybe TVR means giving (in terms of "giving respect" to typefraggers by not killing them) without expecting to receive the same or any acknowledgement whatsoever of the respect you showed? That would be the way I deal with typos. Erh, chatters, I mean. Ok, if someone is really abusing it AND I would notice that then I would try to make an exception for this player. But especially the latter condition is highly improbable.

Or did TVR mean "code it yourself, if you want to make it happen"?

Anyway, I think div made a valid point.

I don't shoot people who are chatting -most- of the time unless:

-They have the flag
-Are in my base

I had someone COMPLAIN before when they had the flag and were hiding and chatting and I fragged them. What did they really expect?

I also give people who have not killed me if I have been typing a couple of seconds leeway as if I hadn't spotted them. I guess you should all try to be more like me

As I have stated before: Typefrags are TOTALLY not ACCEPTABLE.

First of all, you don't ever turn your ass towards another player. Thats just asking for a paddling/shafting.

If a player is typing in the middle of the road, just have some target practice with the laser/try to hit the player with some harder secondary, point is, just move the player..
Fighting around a typing player is also really fun and is the opponent retarded enough to go after a easy kill rather than concentrating fire on you, that idiot got it coming.

The player can have many good reasons for typing in the first place, such as "oh hai im a noob with a question, I can has enlightenment plox?" , configuring the settings so playing is actually possible, answering the noobs question, configuring the server, taking care of that whole afk-serious-bidniss and so on.

There might just be a lot more to gain than getting one easy frag.
Playing for other things than the fraglimit, that the game is more about the health of the community, which is the foundation for making/having a good game.
A new long term player. Showing that a truly good player gotta have a certain code. That code that can be the difference, in the long term, between having lots of victims or players that evolves with respect and in return gives respect. In other words a vaccine against asshatry and elitism.

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. -- Plato

Oh cool, are we starting this epic ethic discussion again? I am in!

I do not have fun to shoot fish in a barrel. Typefragging is very similar, so I don't.

If someone did not shoot me while I was typing I don't shoot him until I moved out of sight, since I feel it is a very sportsman-like gesture not to frag me while I am typing. If someone frags me I don't care at all, though I will respect people exercising sportsmanship a lot more since such people demonstrate that having fun is what the game is about for them too and I can't stand people that need to win no matter what.

As for people abusing the chat situation I didn't notice that up to now, but if I would I could imagine me telling them that I will frag them the next time I see them typing.

I'm with paperclips on this one. But I'm a DM only player and most of these 'annoyances' seem to occur primarily on CTF servers.

So, just stop playing CTF and come back to DM... Or play Nexball.

So, the bottom line is, there is no answer. Typefrag or not, everyone has their own opinion. Just because one typefrags doesn't mean he/she wants to win no matter what. I am polite even though I typefrag sometimes. And I'm certainly not a guy that wants to 'win all the time'.

paperclips wrote:The player can have many good reasons for typing in the first place, such as "oh hai im a noob with a question, I can has enlightenment plox?" , configuring the settings so playing is actually possible, answering the noobs question, configuring the server, taking care of that whole afk-serious-bidniss and so on.

Good reason or not, you can still help the guy even if you shoot him when typing. If I see someone need help with something and that I can help, I will help, even if I shoot him typing.

Still, you guys haven't answered my question if this "problem" exists in other games.
Just because one typefrags doesn't mean the community sucks.

halogene wrote:If someone did not shoot me while I was typing I don't shoot him until I moved out of sight, since I feel it is a very sportsman-like gesture not to frag me while I am typing. If someone frags me I don't care at all, though I will respect people exercising sportsmanship a lot more since such people demonstrate that having fun is what the game is about for them too and I can't stand people that need to win no matter what.

Agree, totally.

However, i also see ppl "chatting" and then plugging my ass full of led once i pass em fairly often. And it does bug me, so does ppl typefragging when you obviously went outa the way to type something.

I dont think typefragging as praxis is ok, but if you pause you ass in the middle of a battlefield to write a novel.. well dont get surprised if you get shot. For me its like this: either what your typing is important enough for getting fragged not to matter or you wait until your dead anyway / find a outa the way place to type.

I cant imagine any working solution by gamelogic, every scenario i can imagine is just to easy to abuse and/or disruptive. Perhaps forcing ppl who only type for a certin time to spectator mode.. but i think that will do little to help this problem.

BTW, I added typefrag information into frag messages... e.g. the normal frag message is ^4You fragged ^7<blah>, the typefragged one is ^1You typefragged ^7<blah>.... It also shows similar information for the person who was killed. But well, i'm very much so against making any type of shield for someone who is typing. That is a VERY VERY VERY bad idea. One example is in a 1v1... The person could simply kill the other player and get a small lead, and then just type the whole match and win. (Of course, no one I know would do that. But well, there are other similar situations where I believe it would in fact happen.. domination for example.)

To be honest, I hold true to the "Stop complaing, you're the one who was typing in the first place" argument. Although I do expect people to not typefrag when asked not to (I obey this, at least).

cool story
i think ist a bad idea but it could be a good(for me) if nexuiz check that the player isreally chatting and not just a protection using flag carrier or what else and not invulnerable only transparent or make THE FUCKING CHATBUBBLE BIGGER AND RED WITH THE WORDS "I'M TYPING PLEASE DON'T FRAG ME!" or something else the chatbullbe is very small and often cantrastless to the background like the teambubble

such a topic got already locked http://forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?t=4152 ...

Anyway. If someone has a question - a) Forum , b) IRC c) Spectate d) stay in base
Also e) if you just died.. you can not get killed!

Next time i run into the enemys base and then i start typing and moan after they kill me!!1!
Its only 1 frag meh.

I mean.. imagine you are a soldier and fighting in iraq or somewhere else .. "hey wait..don't shoot - let me write a mail to family ok?"

WTF

what if type frags simply didn't count toward final score?

I think increasing the ammunition cost of firing for a bit after typing would provide some discouragement.

Or, stop the player from gaining points for a bit.

I don't think these ideas would be good for team matches though.

Yoda almighty wrote:what if type frags simply didn't count toward final score?

This could also be abused, players would "chat" right before death to prevent the opponent from scoring points.

As we have discussed it quite much now:

- any protection for typers can be abused by invoking it right before getting killed
- any penalty after typing harms teamplay where messages may be used to help team mates
- typefragging is lame
- backstabbing after typing is doubly lame

IMHO this "backstabbing" after typing, as well as "suddenly" starting to chat when almost dead, should be treated as a bannable offense, while typefragging should be tolerated as long as there's backstabbers.

Why is it that people even see typefragging as a bad thing? What do people expect when they play a game, not to be killed?
Come on people, sure the Nexuiz community is friendly but to associate the behavior of ALL players on the servers as 'Nexuiz community' is stupid. What happens on the servers is part of the game. Yes, people should still be nice and all but that one who thought that typefragging is "rude" should honestly be typefragged. It is a _game_.

Typefrags are ok. People who cannot handle being killed in a game shouldn't play the game.

ai wrote:1. "Just because one typefrags doesn't mean he/she wants to win no matter what."
2. "Still, you guys haven't answered my question if this "problem" exists in other games."
3. "Just because one typefrags doesn't mean the community sucks."
4. "What do people expect when they play a game, not to be killed?"
5. "but to associate the behavior of ALL players on the servers as 'Nexuiz community' is stupid"
6. "but that one who thought that typefragging is "rude" should honestly be typefragged"
7. "It is a _game_."

1. Well its a game were winning is based on a score. You get higher score if you (type)frag. Hence taking an easy freebie score gives you an advantage. This should not be allowed to exist on public servers.

2. Dont know, dont really play other games.

3. Well if most players on a public popular server, behaves in certain ways, dont you think that new players will think "hm.. is this the feeling of nexuiz/is this how nice players are?" How many do you think tries to evaluate this opinion? Isn't culture/behaviour contagious within a community?

4. I expect to have good time and get help in an adequate way and not being interrupted/annoyed by "player damage sounds" while myself try to formulate a adequate question that enables me to have a more fun time with other players/someone that collects easy points on me while I try to figure something out.

5. "yes well thats sort of like your opinion man". Protip: People believe what they see, Ok hyper mega stupid example: people read the daily hate/aftonbladet/watch fox news/whatever news source. IF a person read just one news source what are that person going to believe? Are that person going to re-evaluate by collecting consuming several news sources? How many do?
Point is, people believe what they see/feel/taste/experience.
If a behaviour is common on a public server (even worse if its really popular and there are no good ping servers around besides that one ). Dont you think something like that could taint the nexuiz experience?

6. Your argument is invalid.

7. Indeed it is, scores are nothing, experiencing a good time _is_, where you and other people involved interact in such a way that both parties feel that your gaming skills is put to the test and a cat and mouse situation arises not just being a mouse or the other way around.

--

In other words: I submit to you, good Sir, that typefrag'ing is a utterly foul thing to use for raising ones score, when there are in fact other scores to collect than these typefrag's some people enjoy collecting. By all means if the player does not know that its possible to speak when one is dead or the meaning of GTFO of the way, face to the far corner wall of the map THEN type/chat/speak your peace, please have at it and show him the way with thy laser. However thou shall not frag. R'amen.

Samual wrote:BTW, I added typefrag information into frag messages... e.g. the normal frag message is ^4You fragged ^7<blah>, the typefragged one is ^1You typefragged ^7<blah>.... It also shows similar information for the person who was killed.

nicely done! OT: what is this IDLYSFIOOYO you speak of?

PinkRobot wrote:So, just stop playing CTF and come back to DM... Or play Nexball.

YAY YAY PinkRobot you are so damn right and I'm completely at your side!

Hugs 'n kisses


Oh, and as long as they don't complain about me typing while being fragged by them, I can easily get along with typefraggers.

1. Typefrags doesn't always mean one extra/free frag. It can simply mean that people do not trust them and that they wanna get rid of them as not to be backstabbed or risk jeopardizing their base security.

2. My point was that if typefrags are common in other games, why should Nexuiz be different? And don't just say it's because of the nice community.

3. I don't know what new players will think. Sure, I'm sure some will think the community is bad but others won't. I played CS in my younger days and the servers were filled with asshats, but many of the forum communities (and IRC) were very nice.

4. If one is that bothered with being fragged when typing, just ask the question(s) on IRC/Forums, no one will kill you there. It's common sense that if you join a game and start typing that you might get fragged. If you expect otherwise, that's being too naive.

5. My brain fried.

6. Just because you disagree doesn't make my point invalid.

7. A game can be played in many ways depending on the individual. One's views isn't the be-all end-all.

---

The bottom line is that if you do join a game you risk being fragged, no matter what. Can't take it, don't play it.
It sound harsh I know, but that's the truth.
I'm not trying to encourage typefrags, I'm saying being upset about them is stupid. If someone can't handle that, honestly, they have issues.

1. Well I guess you are right if someone makes the laser fire repeatedly straight down then starts typing and laser keeps firing then its not a extra frag lol.
In those situations when you suspect a asshat is biding his/hers time, you use your laser (dont kill/frag the typing player) when the person is not out of the way you just dont turn your ass that way, simple, there is no exception from that rule anyway. I only play DM so I dont know about that CTF you speak about, but I only experienced this sort of asshatry once and then I just chased that player until he left.

2. Dont care about other games, I for one would like to see less asshatry everywhere and even minimize the risks of asshats.

3. less asshats again.

4. I mean you do what you can by simple lower the risk of being a free frag/point/score by staying out of the way and telling others how to behave if they must type/chat/ask questions.
If someone typefrag you when you have taken these precautions then it is obvious that its about collecting a easy frag and IMHO should be banned for a period of time.
I expect people not to be asshats. If you are typing and not out of the way, dont listen to my advice GTFO the way well then say hai to mah laser and GL/HF with that, but I dont frag them, in other words dont get myself a easy point. Thats the whole point MOVE, NOT KILL.
If someone has a problem with that, well then its about someone enjoying a easy extra point.
Thats not how I roll.

7. yet again less asshats, more nice.
--
Au contraire, you might not encourage typefrags but you most certainly at least enable them by being an experienced player and contributer of awesome material which add weight to your statements on a public forums by saying that "type frag'ing its OK". Please be a role model for new players.

The funny thing is I agree with both of you. In my opinion it is really stupid to care about being typefragged. I mean, it IS a game after all. Isn't it? Or is it? Or what?

But on the other hand it is a nice thing if people show you the respect that they don't typefrag you. Such respect shows off sportsmanship and greatly adds to the game atmosphere. Whenever I think of a good game I had I basically remember people being friendly and caring about sportsmanship. I never remember scores, though. And that's not because I can't memorize numbers. So I think the bottom line is for me

typefragging is lame
moaning about being typefragged is lame
backstabbing is doubly lame

Edit: I think I could add

Moaning about being backstabbed is also a bit lame. But not quite that much. Maybe 3/5 lame. Let's say it is 4/7 lame. Or 5/8.

maybe 5% mirrordamage and more ammo