I heared that the new hotfix will be out very soon, I think it should also contain some weapon balancing too. I know the time is not enough to test them out well but if the hitscan weapons get a little weaker its still much better than nothing. Fast recommendation after testing 2.5.2 for more than 12 hours looking for weapon balance solutions:

shotgun: abnormal that someone starts a weapon that kills this effective, the current shotgun makes rocketlauncher, crylink and hagar completely useless (players havent discovered it yet) I couldnt test shotgun in a 8 player close range deathmatch game but i know exactly what would happen... Recommendation: reduce damage to ~65-70% percent. Ohh yeah, its push is *GIGANTIC*. Should be halved or quartered.

machinegun: finally nexuiz got a lightning gun. Currently this is the strongest weapon in nexuiz due the new antilag. Recommendation: 150% refire rate, 30% damage, so tracking of the enemy is much more important, also it would consume more ammo, people can spam for hours with one single pickup.

nex: strong as always, damage back to 100 in my recommendation, push back to 70%.

rifle: extremely usable since the new version, i would however slower the refire rate a tiny bit, maybe 20% percent, the damage is mostly okey.

so these are my recommendation, currently 2.5.2 servers are completely messed up, hitscan weapons dominate over all, electro, crylink, hagar and even mortar is useless to pick, becuase the effective rate of hitscan weapons is so gigantic. Please DO consider serious weapon balancing on hitscan weapons for the hotfix, if nexuiz servers will be like this for months the game would be completely ruined.

Im currently trying these settings on lda's server, if anyone wants to test them filter for "lda" in the server filter

SG: made weaker now. Push stays, it always has been that way.
Uzi: reverted to damage values from before antilag got broken.
Nex: down to 100 but I bet it's STILL overpowered.
CR: refire slightly slowed down.

But don't worry, 2.6 will have an entirely different balance, with an even more effective shotgun.

MoNastery CTF runs these new settings that will be in hotfix/2.5.3 version. What changed exactly for now :

Code: Select all

-set g_balance_shotgun_primary_damage 12
+set g_balance_shotgun_primary_damage 9
-set g_balance_shotgun_secondary_damage 12
+set g_balance_shotgun_secondary_damage 9

-set g_balance_uzi_first_damage 35
+set g_balance_uzi_first_damage 30
-set g_balance_uzi_sustained_damage 20
+set g_balance_uzi_sustained_damage 15

-set g_balance_nex_damage 110
+set g_balance_nex_damage 100

-set g_balance_campingrifle_secondary_refire 0.12
+set g_balance_campingrifle_secondary_refire 0.15

EDIT:
-set g_balance_campingrifle_primary_refire 0.7
+set g_balance_campingrifle_primary_refire 0.8


divVerent wrote:SG: made weaker now. Push stays, it always has been that way.
Uzi: reverted to damage values from before antilag got broken.
Nex: down to 100 but I bet it's STILL overpowered.
CR: refire slightly slowed down.

But don't worry, 2.6 will have an entirely different balance, with an even more effective shotgun.

Yeah i know 2.6 will have completely different balance, but it wont be out for a while i assume, so this made balancing pretty urgent

Ohh yeah, will that stuff be fixed that on some servers the match is just never ending? The match is always extended by 2 minutes.

I also recommend to increase the camping rifle refire time a tiny bit, maybe from 0.7 to 0.8 or 0.9, on some maps like ngstation camping rifle really made the game unplayable.

I completely agree with Franco's suggestions. ngstation had the nex removed because of campers and now that the CR does its job properly its reverted back to its previous state

So far the changes are good, played 1-2 hours of DM with the balance changes Ronan mentioned above, much more playable than before, mg is nice, nex feels to be okey too. Couldnt test camping rifle for long, the secondary wasnt strong until now so the new value on that doesnt really make difference, i still think people can spam with the primary too much and too fast.

You should have said so then I thought you were referring to the primary.

Okay, increased primary refire too now.

Agreed with most of the overpowered issues. I've gotten too many easy kills with the nex and the machine gun, the shotty on the other hand I only think should be slightly toned down. I think a drastic reduction (this is Nexuiz's enforcer dammit!) would be bad for the shotgun

I think this new damage on shotgun is very good, it shouldnt be as strong as other pickup weapons since players start with it all the time.

Ok, I can vouch for the shotgun being WAY overpowered. I actually don't need to pick up other weapons (more than Nex) to win. That's just plain wrong. Even with longer distances shotgun can easily kill. For CTF games this is totally unplayable as just 2 or 3 rather good players can defend the base just with the shotgun. The only reason to pick up RL or GL is to have a bigger splash radius than the laser to disorient the player, then switch to the shotgun to finish them off.

So, a starting weapon that is this powerful, what's the reason to pick up other weapons?

Powerful shotgun, weak shotgun, either way it always has the same problem which ruins it one way or the other- no real ammo consumption. With the new ammo chomping machinegun, the shotty is now the only ammo weapon left that never actually runs out of ammo.

That is/should be the laser's job- unlimited ammo but limited damage and versatility. But instead you also have this tag along shotgun weapon that either does useless damage like it seemed to in 2.4 or kicks so much ass that people complain about it being the only weapon you need in 2.3, 2.5 and 2.6, but both ways stem from the fact it never runs out of ammo.

LordHavoc wants a real shotgun that does real damage, and I think that's a great idea. But, real shotguns also use big ass shells and can't fit that many in even a drum clip. 40 rounds is insane. Just make it 8 shells and then its out, and make it just as strong and interesting a weapon as any of the others.

I would take it one step further and randomize the starting weapon so you don't always get a shotgun but instead might get a machinegun, rocket launcher or rifle. It doesn't matter as long as everyone get's something of equal effectiveness and it runs out of ammo in the first fight or two anyway (which all the weapons besides shotgun and laser currently do).

Flying Steel wrote:LordHavoc wants a real shotgun that does real damage, and I think that's a great idea. But, real shotguns also use big ass shells and can't fit that many in even a drum clip. 40 rounds is insane. Just make it 8 shells and then its out, and make it just as strong and interesting a weapon as any of the others.

Well it doesn't HAVE to have a realistic clip-holder amount

Like the idea though of a real shotgun, something as powerful, or slightly more powerful then Q3s shotgun, same kind of distance to damage ratio would be cool.

How does 8-12 shots per 'clip' sound Flying steel, and one ammo for each Shot fired

ai: with the new settings shotgun is really unplayable I agree, but with those cvar Ronan mentioned the situation is far much better, if you want to take a look at the new weapons come to "Big Bada Boom" server (filter for "BBB" in the serverlist), its using the 2.5.3 weapon balance settings where hitscan weapons are weaker, and its finally playable.

flying steel: no, people shouldnt get a starting weapon as strong as the current shotgun, even with 8 ammo its damn strong, if you pick up nex you have an unbeatable combo-weapon duo immediately, and you just needed to pick one weapon for that. The basic idea that you have a weapon that helps in movement (laser) and a weapon that helps survive a little (shotgun) until you pick up any weapon from the map.

These changes are also applied on the Simba CTF server.

I have also added one cvar to that list:

g_balance_shotgun_secondary_bullets 4

(many players JUST use secondary because indeed it rarily runs out of ammo)

k0jak wrote:Well it doesn't HAVE to have a realistic clip-holder amount

Like the idea though of a real shotgun, something as powerful, or slightly more powerful then Q3s shotgun, same kind of distance to damage ratio would be cool.

How does 8-12 shots per 'clip' sound Flying steel, and one ammo for each Shot fired

Sounds good to me.

flying steel: no, people shouldnt get a starting weapon as strong as the current shotgun, even with 8 ammo its damn strong, if you pick up nex you have an unbeatable combo-weapon duo immediately, and you just needed to pick one weapon for that. The basic idea that you have a weapon that helps in movement (laser) and a weapon that helps survive a little (shotgun) until you pick up any weapon from the map.

Well the Nex is basically an unbeatable combo with any other weapon, including laser. But either way, 2.6 marks the end of the Nex, and the CR's refire and secondary means it needs no combo.

A quick feedback after 2 days of testing the new weapon balance: I think shotgun is still a tiny bit overpowered with 9 damage, at least based on those matches played on BBB server, also the +0.1 sec refire time didnt really change basically the spammability with camping rifle.
I think the perfect balance would be 8 damage for shotgun and 0.9 refire with camping rifle primary, please give these values a try. As i experienced shotgun is still a stronger in face-to-face close ranged fights than crylink, if you aim well and use the primary.

Flying Steel wrote:
Well the Nex is basically an unbeatable combo with any other weapon, including laser. But either way, 2.6 marks the end of the Nex, and the CR's refire and secondary means it needs no combo.

WHAT!? *Goes sits in corner and cries*

Lee_Stricklin wrote:

Flying Steel wrote:
Well the Nex is basically an unbeatable combo with any other weapon, including laser. But either way, 2.6 marks the end of the Nex, and the CR's refire and secondary means it needs no combo.

WHAT!? *Goes sits in corner and cries*

Well you know what I mean, there's still a hitscan weapon called the Nex with the same visuals/audio that consumes 5 cell ammo (I think), but it fires about 3 times faster, does only 60 damage and will someday soon have damage falloff over range (the code to support this is already implemented in 2.5.2 I believe).

BTW, with all that in mind, it really seems like it is about time for the Nex to get a secondary attack finally. Maybe the Nex secondary attack could be an attack with reverse falloff- no damage in close but eventually builds up to 60-100 damage over like 10,000 to 40,000 Quake Units (AKA Inches).

Flying Steel wrote:

Lee_Stricklin wrote:

Flying Steel wrote:
Well the Nex is basically an unbeatable combo with any other weapon, including laser. But either way, 2.6 marks the end of the Nex, and the CR's refire and secondary means it needs no combo.

WHAT!? *Goes sits in corner and cries*

Well you know what I mean, there's still a hitscan weapon called the Nex with the same visuals/audio that consumes 5 cell ammo (I think), but it fires about 3 times faster, does only 60 damage and will someday soon have damage falloff over range (the code to support this is already implemented in 2.5.2 I believe).

BTW, with all that in mind, it really seems like it is about time for the Nex to get a secondary attack finally. Maybe the Nex secondary attack could be an attack with reverse falloff- no damage in close but eventually builds up to 60-100 damage over like 10,000 to 40,000 Quake Units (AKA Inches).

Oh, they're modifying it so that it's no longer a broken weapon. Can you do me a favor and try to not scare the shit out of me in the future?

Lee_Stricklin wrote:Oh, they're modifying it so that it's no longer a broken weapon. Can you do me a favor and try to not scare the shit out of me in the future?

Well what you are saying is the thought of losing the Nex' aesthetics scares you shitless?

Because gameplay wise the Nex is completely redesigned- the Rifle has alot more in common with the current Nex than the 2.6 Nex gun does.

Don't get me wrong though, I like the 2.6 Nex alot better than the current overpowered one.

... Works fine with my balance....

exec balanceSamual.cfg

Enjoy.

Flying Steel wrote:

Lee_Stricklin wrote:Oh, they're modifying it so that it's no longer a broken weapon. Can you do me a favor and try to not scare the shit out of me in the future?

Well what you are saying is the thought of losing the Nex' aesthetics scares you shitless?

Because gameplay wise the Nex is completely redesigned- the Rifle has alot more in common with the current Nex than the 2.6 Nex gun does.

Don't get me wrong though, I like the 2.6 Nex alot better than the current overpowered one.

As long as it looks like a nex and feels like a nex I'm fine. The fact that they're redoing it is pretty cool since it dominates everything, I got frustrated as hell a few hours ago playing in CTF Gasoline Powered on House of CTF because the first team that gets those damn rail guns basically has the map controlled. Kind of weird, I don't remember it being broken in 2.3 or 2.4 in spite of it doing more damage. Maybe it's because it longer takes half an hour to fire after you click the mouse button.

Lee_Stricklin wrote:As long as it looks like a nex and feels like a nex I'm fine.

Well I can drink to that.

The fact that they're redoing it is pretty cool since it dominates everything, I got frustrated as hell a few hours ago playing in CTF Gasoline Powered on House of CTF because the first team that gets those damn rail guns basically has the map controlled.

I had a similar experience recently on Hydronex. The other team was using Nex guns exclusively.

Kind of weird, I don't remember it being broken in 2.3 or 2.4 in spite of it doing more damage. Maybe it's because it longer takes half an hour to fire after you click the mouse button.

Well I thought for sure it was 1.5 second refire always, but maybe it was 2 at somepoint, I don't remember anymore.

Lee_Stricklin wrote:...I don't remember it being broken in 2.3 or 2.4 in spite of it doing more damage ...

It's a side-affect of the overall reduction in player acceleration, the original 150 damage & 1 second refire was balanced for 500 maxspeed, and no weapon combos

The fact that they're redoing it is pretty cool since it dominates everything, I got frustrated as hell a few hours ago playing in CTF Gasoline Powered on House of CTF because the first team that gets those damn rail guns basically has the map controlled.

Its the fault of the map not the weapon, nex wouldnt be as strong as it is currently if:

a, people wouldnt put it on open maps all the time
b, only 1 nex would be on the maps in middle position, encouraging fighting for it. Mikectf3 is a perfect example, thats how the basic layout of most CTF maps should be: semi-open with only 1 nex in good position.
c, spamming would be prevented with using different ammo on nex.

Its not the fault of the weapon that people create sniper maps all the time.
About hydronex: if you get through the sniper area of the map, nex doesnt dominate any more but mortar and rocket gets very important. I would say even hydronex is relatively a good map, because it contains infight and long-range figting areas, that you can avoid pretty well with going underwater.

Here is the logic:
huge distance between me and opponent -> i use the long range weapon of the game.

--> the most part of the map is open area -> i will need to use nex most of the time -> i will make most of my frags with it -> nex will feel powerful.

belive me, nex with 70 damage 1 second refire (semi shock rifle) wouldnt change this at all. Its natural that nex feels strong and dominating over all, because people are playing facing, greatwall, cbctf1 and mentalspace 99% of the time.


if nex would get range dependant damage combined with shock rifle attributes it could partially solve the mapping problems. For long range there could be camping rifle with 2.5 second refire and 110 damage.

FraNcoTirAdoR wrote:About hydronex: if you get through the sniper area of the map, nex doesnt dominate any more but mortar and rocket gets very important. I would say even hydronex is relatively a good map, because it contains infight and long-range figting areas, that you can avoid pretty well with going underwater.

This is absolutely correct. I very often go under the water to the enemy base for two reasons.
1. To get cover from the Nexers, they never notice me unless you are standing in the Nex room right up at the window (then they can see someone come out of the tube). But if you don't pay attention they either don't see you, or won't have enough time to fire at you.
2. There's two huge armors which help very much, if they are there I of course take them. Both of them, not just our armor.

FraNcoTirAdoR wrote:Its the fault of the map not the weapon,

I disagree for one of the reasons you mentioned:

"Its natural that nex feels strong and dominating over all, because people are playing facing, greatwall, cbctf1 and mentalspace 99% of the time."

People mostly play open maps in this game, so the weapons must be balanced for open maps too.

if nex would get range dependant damage combined with shock rifle attributes it could partially solve the mapping problems.

That's where it's headed, and it seems like a good enough solution to me.

For long range there could be camping rifle with 2.5 second refire and 110 damage.

You're more likely to see a 1 to 1.5 sec refire on the CR with the other stats remaining the same, methinks. Otherwise the devs would have just done that to the Nex a long time ago instead of making a replacement weapon.

The whole thing: 'CR is not Nex and Nex is a new weapon' is so ridiculous!
Nex is the 'sniper' weapon in this game, why not make CR the 'shock rifle' that people so very much crave and make Nex this sniper weapon. It would be hella lot easier to do that than to create a new weapon for sniper and change the current Nex.
Nex is closer to sniper weapon than any weapon before CR, just makes sense to change that.

The bottomline is that, I want NEX (the model and the sounds) to be the sniper, not a new weapon. If you want a shock rifle, create a new one then. All this time Nex has been the sniper/rail weapon, would be very bad to change that suddenly with one version.

In the end, nothing is lost, people get a sniper weapon, and people get a shock rifle. Just that the legacy of Nex stays true which I believe is very important and one of the main true things Nexuiz brings.

ai wrote:The whole thing: 'CR is not Nex and Nex is a new weapon' is so ridiculous!
Nex is the 'sniper' weapon in this game, why not make CR the 'shock rifle' that people so very much crave and make Nex this sniper weapon. It would be hella lot easier to do that than to create a new weapon for sniper and change the current Nex.
Nex is closer to sniper weapon than any weapon before CR, just makes sense to change that.

It might be a matter of perspective; when it comes to delivering accurate firepower the Nex is still the Nex- 60 damage every half second is powerful stuff that you don't have to make headshots with.

Making the Nex a headshot weapon could detract from its powerful "phaser" weapon feel, where you trash someone no matter where you hit them.

But the headshot is also a requirement for a balanced sniper weapon, since it requires some actual skill to snipe opponents.

All this time Nex has been the sniper/rail weapon, would be very bad to change that suddenly with one version.

It might actually be a particle beam, or at least it was before it was aesthetically overhauled with the railgun barrel and Eraser style smoke trails after 2.3.

If it is, then the camper rifle could be made into a railgun, aesthetically speaking.

Just telling, the Laser is also sort of fucked up.

Right until now, it was good for Jumping/Pushing and so it was used.
All right.
But now, the Weapon functions, i mean the basic ones, have been altered!

I don't really know why Laser at all has been changed..

Laser was Primary: Laser and Secondary: Switch to last used weapon.
You were able to use it for everything, including angled jumps.

Now you got this awkward secondary function -the .. how call? push to back for a jump forward. Which also means the useful 'Switch to last used weapon' is gone. Primary Laser is not that good for jumping anymore.
[any way to emulate this with same behavior for secondary now???)

Really, why that?
If people are unable to do proper laser-jumps (and no, they aren't), then let's have them learn them. but the secondary is a half-assed substitute for the real deal. Ever tried using it for jumps not straight frontwards? Sucks ^^ Angled jumps? Pffff.

I am very glad this mode is not seen on most of the servers though.


Overall: Please keep the laser as it was and please, please, with cream on top, don't alter the already known basic weapon functions that much.


Oh, that might have taken me to the new steerable Rocket, but because it is not often used, and overall its unsteered behavior remained the same, i don't complain.

(Please stick to minor adjustments to power, accuracy and such.
You cannot make a whole new game out of Nexuiz.)


Thanx a LOT anyway, it is still always a great gaming experience!